Date   

Re: Frequency calibration

Charles W. Powell
 

Alright Frank.  Sorry - you did say HT-40.

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Apr 7, 2019, at 10:10 PM, Frank <prpntfmr@...> wrote:

Hi Charles,
  Thanks for the reply.
I was trying to use a communications receiver with an up converter that covers the hf bands, but it just is not 
working like I hoped it would.
I am using a dummy load and a freq counter clipped to the load and am getting good stable readings.
Whenever I adjust the offset in the cal mode and then go back to the normal mode, the actual transmit freq
does not match the annunciated freq. Is this right? When powered up it announces 7.030 but the actual
transmit freq is what was set in the cal mode.
Maybe I just don't understand what the cal process is doing. I just like to know what freq I am transmitting on.
Well it's late and I'm going to bed, tomorrow is another day.
Thanks again Charles
73's  Frank  Kb4VU


Re: Frequency calibration

Frank
 

Hi Charles,
  Thanks for the reply.
I was trying to use a communications receiver with an up converter that covers the hf bands, but it just is not 
working like I hoped it would.
I am using a dummy load and a freq counter clipped to the load and am getting good stable readings.
Whenever I adjust the offset in the cal mode and then go back to the normal mode, the actual transmit freq
does not match the annunciated freq. Is this right? When powered up it announces 7.030 but the actual
transmit freq is what was set in the cal mode.
Maybe I just don't understand what the cal process is doing. I just like to know what freq I am transmitting on.
Well it's late and I'm going to bed, tomorrow is another day.
Thanks again Charles
73's  Frank  Kb4VU


Re: Frequency calibration

Charles W. Powell
 

Frank,

You may have to repeat the calibration several times to get the transmit frequency to match the specified frequency..  At least one of the units I built required a considerable amount of fiddling to get it right.  If you have a frequency counter you should be able to get it spot on.  If your counter doesn’t have a 50 ohm dummy load, I’d connect to a dummy load and then connect the counter to that either with clips or a “T” connection at the dummy load.  The finals will withstand a little no-load abuse but I don’t recommend it.

If you do any programming, I’d also change the timeout from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.  I did this on all the Hilltoppers I have built and it works fine, but I wouldn’t go more than 10 seconds.  I changed mine because the Elecraft T1 wasn’t fast enough to tune in 5 seconds.  The tuning timeout is set in the same part of the firmware.

Anyway, once you have the radio calibrated to the correct frequency (boot-up should be at 14060, I think) then set the receive offset using the fine trimmer cap.  Default offset frequency is 800 Hz, which is the default pitch of the sidetone.  This can be modified in firmware if you prefer something different, like 700 Hz or 600 Hz.  Supposedly the bandpass is at 800 Hz but I have no trouble with any of my Hilltoppers at 600 Hz.  If you modify the firmware, then it becomes necessary to recalibrate the receive offset, but it’s not necessary if you are happy at 800 Hz.

Does that all make sense to you? 

72,

Chas - NK8O


On Apr 7, 2019, at 7:41 PM, Frank <prpntfmr@...> wrote:

I just finished a Hilltopper 40. It works well, but I'm a little fuzzy on the  frequency calibration.
I'm using a receiver to monitor  and am having trouble matching with the sidetone freq.
I noticed that when the correction is applied and the Cal jumper is removed the actual transmit
frequency is not the same as the annunciated frequency. T his does not sound right to me.
Also when using the alternate method with a freq counter, I assume that I'm monitoring the 
output at the BNC connector. What am I tuning to?
I've been inactive for many years and don't have any equipment anymore, so I'm enjoying
listening with the Hilltopper and brushing up on CW before I start having QSO's again.

Any information will be greatly appreciated
Thanks and 73"s    Frank  KB4VU
    



Frequency calibration

Frank
 

I just finished a Hilltopper 40. It works well, but I'm a little fuzzy on the  frequency calibration.
I'm using a receiver to monitor  and am having trouble matching with the sidetone freq.
I noticed that when the correction is applied and the Cal jumper is removed the actual transmit
frequency is not the same as the annunciated frequency. T his does not sound right to me.
Also when using the alternate method with a freq counter, I assume that I'm monitoring the 
output at the BNC connector. What am I tuning to?
I've been inactive for many years and don't have any equipment anymore, so I'm enjoying
listening with the Hilltopper and brushing up on CW before I start having QSO's again.

Any information will be greatly appreciated
Thanks and 73"s    Frank  KB4VU
    


Re: [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'

Ron K0OXB
 

Hello Dave,

No refund here...just appreciate your time and courtesy to assist the group!

73,  Ron K0OXB


On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 4:40 AM, Dave Benson
<davek1swl@...> wrote:
folks-

At this point, I've shipped all but two mod sets for the Hilltopper. Parts are due in today and then I can ship those.  About 20 sets have gone out.

I was surprised to discover that most of the padded mailers shipped as 'large envelope' rather than 'parcel'. That put the postage cost at $1.00 instead of almost $4.  Feel free to email me directly (below) to request a refund of the overage. Otherwise, consider it a contribution to my 'project fund'. I won't mind.

73- Dave Benson, K1SWL
davek1swl at gmail.com

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Dave Benson via Groups.Io <davek1swl=gmail.com@groups.io>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 4:28 PM
Subject: [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'
To: <main@4sqrp.groups.io>, <HilltopperKit@4sqrp.groups.io>


gang-

As my original post mentioned, fixes 1) and 2) are free for the asking.

Please contact me directly for these:   davek1swl at gmail.com
-----------------------
The price for all three is $7 via Paypal (A check's fine too)  The big difference is the need for a padded mailer, po$tage and Paypal fee- those alone add up to $5.

For this flavor:  Paypal to my e-mail address above.
-----------------------

I'll be able to ship later this week- I've just reordered parts

73- Dave, K1SWL


Re: [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'

Bob Zolecki
 

Hi Dave
Put my money in ur "project fund" .
73 de Bob Z KR9Z


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Benson <davek1swl@...>
To: HilltopperKit <HilltopperKit@4sqrp.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 4, 2019 5:40 am
Subject: [HilltopperKit] [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'

folks-

At this point, I've shipped all but two mod sets for the Hilltopper. Parts are due in today and then I can ship those.  About 20 sets have gone out.

I was surprised to discover that most of the padded mailers shipped as 'large envelope' rather than 'parcel'. That put the postage cost at $1.00 instead of almost $4.  Feel free to email me directly (below) to request a refund of the overage. Otherwise, consider it a contribution to my 'project fund'. I won't mind.

73- Dave Benson, K1SWL
davek1swl at gmail.com

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Dave Benson via Groups.Io <davek1swl=gmail.com@groups.io>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 4:28 PM
Subject: [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'
To: <main@4sqrp.groups.io>, <HilltopperKit@4sqrp.groups.io>


gang-

As my original post mentioned, fixes 1) and 2) are free for the asking.

Please contact me directly for these:   davek1swl at gmail.com
-----------------------
The price for all three is $7 via Paypal (A check's fine too)  The big difference is the need for a padded mailer, po$tage and Paypal fee- those alone add up to $5.

For this flavor:  Paypal to my e-mail address above.
-----------------------

I'll be able to ship later this week- I've just reordered parts

73- Dave, K1SWL


Re: [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'

Dave Benson
 

Thanks, Brian!

I was portable for the afternoon CWT sprint yesterday- 17 contacts on 20 and 40M. The ground's bare on south-facing slopes but still a foot of snow in the shade.

It's still a bit early for outdoor ops here in NH, but you take opportunities when they arise. Upper 50s and mostly sunny when I set up. It was down to 50F, overcast and winds gusting 35 by the time I packed up.
 
73- Dave, K1SWL


On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 7:47 AM KB9BVN - <kb9bvn@...> wrote:
Dave, 

Thank you very much for doing this.  I already loved my HT20 but after the mods, it's even better.  

Indiana Fireflies QRP Group met for Pizza last night and we were talking about how great the 4 States kits have been.

Outdoor Ops Season is almost here in Indiana....where it's 70 today and snowing tomorrow. 

Every day can be field day! 

de KB9BVN
Brian Murrey



On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 5:40 AM Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:
folks-

At this point, I've shipped all but two mod sets for the Hilltopper. Parts are due in today and then I can ship those.  About 20 sets have gone out.

I was surprised to discover that most of the padded mailers shipped as 'large envelope' rather than 'parcel'. That put the postage cost at $1.00 instead of almost $4.  Feel free to email me directly (below) to request a refund of the overage. Otherwise, consider it a contribution to my 'project fund'. I won't mind.

73- Dave Benson, K1SWL
davek1swl at gmail.com

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Dave Benson via Groups.Io <davek1swl=gmail.com@groups.io>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 4:28 PM
Subject: [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'
To: <main@4sqrp.groups.io>, <HilltopperKit@4sqrp.groups.io>


gang-

As my original post mentioned, fixes 1) and 2) are free for the asking.

Please contact me directly for these:   davek1swl at gmail.com
-----------------------
The price for all three is $7 via Paypal (A check's fine too)  The big difference is the need for a padded mailer, po$tage and Paypal fee- those alone add up to $5.

For this flavor:  Paypal to my e-mail address above.
-----------------------

I'll be able to ship later this week- I've just reordered parts

73- Dave, K1SWL



--
73 de KB9BVN
Brian Murrey


Re: [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'

KB9BVN - <kb9bvn@...>
 

Dave, 

Thank you very much for doing this.  I already loved my HT20 but after the mods, it's even better.  

Indiana Fireflies QRP Group met for Pizza last night and we were talking about how great the 4 States kits have been.

Outdoor Ops Season is almost here in Indiana....where it's 70 today and snowing tomorrow. 

Every day can be field day! 

de KB9BVN
Brian Murrey



On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 5:40 AM Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:
folks-

At this point, I've shipped all but two mod sets for the Hilltopper. Parts are due in today and then I can ship those.  About 20 sets have gone out.

I was surprised to discover that most of the padded mailers shipped as 'large envelope' rather than 'parcel'. That put the postage cost at $1.00 instead of almost $4.  Feel free to email me directly (below) to request a refund of the overage. Otherwise, consider it a contribution to my 'project fund'. I won't mind.

73- Dave Benson, K1SWL
davek1swl at gmail.com

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Dave Benson via Groups.Io <davek1swl=gmail.com@groups.io>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 4:28 PM
Subject: [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'
To: <main@4sqrp.groups.io>, <HilltopperKit@4sqrp.groups.io>


gang-

As my original post mentioned, fixes 1) and 2) are free for the asking.

Please contact me directly for these:   davek1swl at gmail.com
-----------------------
The price for all three is $7 via Paypal (A check's fine too)  The big difference is the need for a padded mailer, po$tage and Paypal fee- those alone add up to $5.

For this flavor:  Paypal to my e-mail address above.
-----------------------

I'll be able to ship later this week- I've just reordered parts

73- Dave, K1SWL



--
73 de KB9BVN
Brian Murrey


[4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'

Dave Benson
 

folks-

At this point, I've shipped all but two mod sets for the Hilltopper. Parts are due in today and then I can ship those.  About 20 sets have gone out.

I was surprised to discover that most of the padded mailers shipped as 'large envelope' rather than 'parcel'. That put the postage cost at $1.00 instead of almost $4.  Feel free to email me directly (below) to request a refund of the overage. Otherwise, consider it a contribution to my 'project fund'. I won't mind.

73- Dave Benson, K1SWL
davek1swl at gmail.com

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Dave Benson via Groups.Io <davek1swl=gmail.com@groups.io>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 4:28 PM
Subject: [4SQRP] Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'
To: <main@4sqrp.groups.io>, <HilltopperKit@4sqrp.groups.io>


gang-

As my original post mentioned, fixes 1) and 2) are free for the asking.

Please contact me directly for these:   davek1swl at gmail.com
-----------------------
The price for all three is $7 via Paypal (A check's fine too)  The big difference is the need for a padded mailer, po$tage and Paypal fee- those alone add up to $5.

For this flavor:  Paypal to my e-mail address above.
-----------------------

I'll be able to ship later this week- I've just reordered parts

73- Dave, K1SWL
_._,_._,_


Hilltopper mods - 'how to get them'

Dave Benson
 

gang-

As my original post mentioned, fixes 1) and 2) are free for the asking.

Please contact me directly for these:   davek1swl at gmail.com
-----------------------
The price for all three is $7 via Paypal (A check's fine too)  The big difference is the need for a padded mailer, po$tage and Paypal fee- those alone add up to $5.

For this flavor:  Paypal to my e-mail address above.
-----------------------

I'll be able to ship later this week- I've just reordered parts

73- Dave, K1SWL


Re: Hilltopper Mods

Charles W. Powell
 

Dave,

The chip is a ‘drop in’ replacement for the current chip?  Send me one and I will send you the cost by PayPal.  Looks to me like both mods, 6 dB + 6 dB makes 12 dB all together.  That should turn the RF gain down considerably!

I’ve already done the sidetone mod, and it is great.

Another side note: I don’t know why, but with changing the center frequency and sidetone to 600 Hz, I don’t note any loss.  In fact, if the station is offset to 800 Hz, I note it to be quite a bit down from moving it to my center frequency.  I used the Hilltopper 40 exclusively while I was out of town last week so I had time to get some empiric data on performance.

Let us know the total cost for the chip and postage.  Throw in R5 and C22 and I’ll replace those in as well.

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 24, 2019, at 5:22 AM, Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:

Folks-

Here are several easy mods to improve Hilltopper performance. They address audio levels and quality.

1)   'Loud sidetone':

The value of R8  (now 22k) can be increased to 47K to 100K.  (This change has been posted before, but it's worth including in this summary )

2) 'Low audio'  

The values of R5 (150K) and C22 (470 pF) may be changed to 330K and 220 pF respectively.  This yields a gain increase of 6 dB without affecting that stage's rolloff characteristic.

These two components are in 'tight quarters'- between U3 and the pushbutton switch.  Cutting one or both component leads and tacking the new components on the underside of the board makes the change much easier. 

 But wait- there's more!......

As some of you have noted, there's a 'screech' on loud CW signals- it necessitates riding the gain control. I evaluated samples of a more robust op-amp-  the NJM4556AD.

3) Replacing the NE5532P with that new device eliminates the screech. You'll hear some distortion when limiting occurs, but it's much less objectionable than the NE5532's rude noises. Its 'limiting' threshold is also about 6 dB higher than the present device.  The net result of this change, combined with 2) above,  is 6 dB more audio without the rudities (that's a word!).

Note that if you increase the gain without replacing the IC, you'll find yourself riding the gain control more often
------------------------------------------------
Here's the deal:

If you'd like parts for fixes 1) and 2), simply send me your address and I'll drop them in the mail to you.

I can provide the NJM4556AD as well, but I'd need to charge for it at my cost.  Most of that is postage- nearly $4 for a 'non-flat' mailing these days.   This part is also readily available through Digikey and Mouser.

73- Dave Benson, K1SWL
email: davek1swl at gmail.com


Hilltopper Mods

Dave Benson
 

Folks-

Here are several easy mods to improve Hilltopper performance. They address audio levels and quality.

1)   'Loud sidetone':

The value of R8  (now 22k) can be increased to 47K to 100K.  (This change has been posted before, but it's worth including in this summary )

2) 'Low audio'  

The values of R5 (150K) and C22 (470 pF) may be changed to 330K and 220 pF respectively.  This yields a gain increase of 6 dB without affecting that stage's rolloff characteristic.

These two components are in 'tight quarters'- between U3 and the pushbutton switch.  Cutting one or both component leads and tacking the new components on the underside of the board makes the change much easier. 

 But wait- there's more!......

As some of you have noted, there's a 'screech' on loud CW signals- it necessitates riding the gain control. I evaluated samples of a more robust op-amp-  the NJM4556AD.

3) Replacing the NE5532P with that new device eliminates the screech. You'll hear some distortion when limiting occurs, but it's much less objectionable than the NE5532's rude noises. Its 'limiting' threshold is also about 6 dB higher than the present device.  The net result of this change, combined with 2) above,  is 6 dB more audio without the rudities (that's a word!).

Note that if you increase the gain without replacing the IC, you'll find yourself riding the gain control more often
------------------------------------------------
Here's the deal:

If you'd like parts for fixes 1) and 2), simply send me your address and I'll drop them in the mail to you.

I can provide the NJM4556AD as well, but I'd need to charge for it at my cost.  Most of that is postage- nearly $4 for a 'non-flat' mailing these days.   This part is also readily available through Digikey and Mouser.

73- Dave Benson, K1SWL
email: davek1swl at gmail.com


Re: Hilltopper 40 Power Out at 12 VDC

KB9BVN - <kb9bvn@...>
 

This is a fun and very learned group..I learn more every day I am here. 

de KB9BVN


On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 9:17 AM Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:
re class-C vs class E

There's another straightforward way to tell...by looking at the schematic.

The components on a class-E amplifier's collector/drain circuit should be resonant at the operating frequency. This primarily includes the collector/drain's RF choke and a capacitor to ground. (The PA device's output capacitance also needs to be factored in. )

If there's a capacitor to ground on the PA drain/collector, chances are good it's designed for class-E.

73-Dave

On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 6:18 AM David Wilcox via Groups.Io <Djwilcox01=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
OT I know.

Still looking for a Palm Pico Paddle.  Thought one of the listeners here might have one to sell.

Thank you.

Dave K8WPE. Djwilcox01 at gmail dot com

David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad

On Mar 13, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Charles W. Powell via Groups.Io <doctorcwp@...> wrote:

Oh good.  Some more fun with the scope!

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 13, 2019, at 8:30 PM, WA0ITP <wa0itp@...> wrote:

Correct!  Put your scope probe on the collector of the finals  If it is in Class E, You should see only positive rectangular pulses, such as the ones below.  The LPF filters out the harmonics making it sign wave. 

Dave has mentioned that the HT runs in Class C.  The second graph below show most classes and their conduction angles.  Class C is sinusoidal but is biased off for most of the cycle.  It can be very efficient too.

<oamobnajgjncnmhh.dib>


<nobdbcoledmglenc.png>
72 WAØITP
I love this radio stuff.
www.wa0itp.com
www.4sqrp.com
On 3/13/2019 6:32 PM, Charles W. Powell via Groups.Io wrote:
Question:  Can one tell from the waveform of the output of the BS170s what class amplifier is in operation?  If I understand correctly, Class E would show only a series of pulses, whereas class C would show a “round topped” upright square wave.

Any guru comments on this?

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 8, 2019, at 4:25 AM, Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:

Stan-

Good question!  (and nice going on all the kit building)

There shouldn't be much difference in power output between the two bands. There's plenty of drive from the paralleled logic gates. As a result, the PA devices should be in saturation either way.  As an aside, I'd heard from someone who tried the scheme on 50 MHz. He got 4W out.

From what I've heard, the QCX may be more prone to low power output. I don't know if that's a common occurence, though.  The QCX is configured for class-E but the component values don't make sense to me.  In the case of the Hilltopper, I was concerned about peak voltages (4*Vcc) and tolerance stack-ups. As a result, the Hilltopper runs class-C and not class-E.

73- Dave, K1SWL

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:45 PM StanWB2LQF <sjl219@...> wrote:

I'm about to purchase a Hilltopper 40 but first I would like to know how close to 5 watts output I can get from 12 VDC?  I built five QCX transceivers and not one of them ever approached 5 watts on 12 VDC and they also use three BS170 transistors.

In fairness to QCX Labs, they do indeed specify that the QCX transceivers operate on approx 6 to 16 volts and, of course, output varies directly with voltage.

Followup question:  For whatever power out 12 VDC provides for the Hilltopper 40 should I assume it will be EQUAL or LOWER for the Hilltopper 20?

Thanks in advance for some enlightenment; I'm a new group member.

72, Stan WB2LQF








--
73 de KB9BVN
Brian Murrey


Re: Hilltopper 40 Power Out at 12 VDC

Dave Benson
 

re class-C vs class E

There's another straightforward way to tell...by looking at the schematic.

The components on a class-E amplifier's collector/drain circuit should be resonant at the operating frequency. This primarily includes the collector/drain's RF choke and a capacitor to ground. (The PA device's output capacitance also needs to be factored in. )

If there's a capacitor to ground on the PA drain/collector, chances are good it's designed for class-E.

73-Dave


On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 6:18 AM David Wilcox via Groups.Io <Djwilcox01=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
OT I know.

Still looking for a Palm Pico Paddle.  Thought one of the listeners here might have one to sell.

Thank you.

Dave K8WPE. Djwilcox01 at gmail dot com

David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad

On Mar 13, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Charles W. Powell via Groups.Io <doctorcwp@...> wrote:

Oh good.  Some more fun with the scope!

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 13, 2019, at 8:30 PM, WA0ITP <wa0itp@...> wrote:

Correct!  Put your scope probe on the collector of the finals  If it is in Class E, You should see only positive rectangular pulses, such as the ones below.  The LPF filters out the harmonics making it sign wave. 

Dave has mentioned that the HT runs in Class C.  The second graph below show most classes and their conduction angles.  Class C is sinusoidal but is biased off for most of the cycle.  It can be very efficient too.

<oamobnajgjncnmhh.dib>


<nobdbcoledmglenc.png>
72 WAØITP
I love this radio stuff.
www.wa0itp.com
www.4sqrp.com
On 3/13/2019 6:32 PM, Charles W. Powell via Groups.Io wrote:
Question:  Can one tell from the waveform of the output of the BS170s what class amplifier is in operation?  If I understand correctly, Class E would show only a series of pulses, whereas class C would show a “round topped” upright square wave.

Any guru comments on this?

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 8, 2019, at 4:25 AM, Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:

Stan-

Good question!  (and nice going on all the kit building)

There shouldn't be much difference in power output between the two bands. There's plenty of drive from the paralleled logic gates. As a result, the PA devices should be in saturation either way.  As an aside, I'd heard from someone who tried the scheme on 50 MHz. He got 4W out.

From what I've heard, the QCX may be more prone to low power output. I don't know if that's a common occurence, though.  The QCX is configured for class-E but the component values don't make sense to me.  In the case of the Hilltopper, I was concerned about peak voltages (4*Vcc) and tolerance stack-ups. As a result, the Hilltopper runs class-C and not class-E.

73- Dave, K1SWL

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:45 PM StanWB2LQF <sjl219@...> wrote:

I'm about to purchase a Hilltopper 40 but first I would like to know how close to 5 watts output I can get from 12 VDC?  I built five QCX transceivers and not one of them ever approached 5 watts on 12 VDC and they also use three BS170 transistors.

In fairness to QCX Labs, they do indeed specify that the QCX transceivers operate on approx 6 to 16 volts and, of course, output varies directly with voltage.

Followup question:  For whatever power out 12 VDC provides for the Hilltopper 40 should I assume it will be EQUAL or LOWER for the Hilltopper 20?

Thanks in advance for some enlightenment; I'm a new group member.

72, Stan WB2LQF







Re: Hilltopper 40 Power Out at 12 VDC

David Wilcox <Djwilcox01@...>
 

OT I know.

Still looking for a Palm Pico Paddle.  Thought one of the listeners here might have one to sell.

Thank you.

Dave K8WPE. Djwilcox01 at gmail dot com

David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad

On Mar 13, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Charles W. Powell via Groups.Io <doctorcwp@...> wrote:

Oh good.  Some more fun with the scope!

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 13, 2019, at 8:30 PM, WA0ITP <wa0itp@...> wrote:

Correct!  Put your scope probe on the collector of the finals  If it is in Class E, You should see only positive rectangular pulses, such as the ones below.  The LPF filters out the harmonics making it sign wave. 

Dave has mentioned that the HT runs in Class C.  The second graph below show most classes and their conduction angles.  Class C is sinusoidal but is biased off for most of the cycle.  It can be very efficient too.

<oamobnajgjncnmhh.dib>


<nobdbcoledmglenc.png>
72 WAØITP
I love this radio stuff.
www.wa0itp.com
www.4sqrp.com
On 3/13/2019 6:32 PM, Charles W. Powell via Groups.Io wrote:
Question:  Can one tell from the waveform of the output of the BS170s what class amplifier is in operation?  If I understand correctly, Class E would show only a series of pulses, whereas class C would show a “round topped” upright square wave.

Any guru comments on this?

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 8, 2019, at 4:25 AM, Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:

Stan-

Good question!  (and nice going on all the kit building)

There shouldn't be much difference in power output between the two bands. There's plenty of drive from the paralleled logic gates. As a result, the PA devices should be in saturation either way.  As an aside, I'd heard from someone who tried the scheme on 50 MHz. He got 4W out.

From what I've heard, the QCX may be more prone to low power output. I don't know if that's a common occurence, though.  The QCX is configured for class-E but the component values don't make sense to me.  In the case of the Hilltopper, I was concerned about peak voltages (4*Vcc) and tolerance stack-ups. As a result, the Hilltopper runs class-C and not class-E.

73- Dave, K1SWL

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:45 PM StanWB2LQF <sjl219@...> wrote:

I'm about to purchase a Hilltopper 40 but first I would like to know how close to 5 watts output I can get from 12 VDC?  I built five QCX transceivers and not one of them ever approached 5 watts on 12 VDC and they also use three BS170 transistors.

In fairness to QCX Labs, they do indeed specify that the QCX transceivers operate on approx 6 to 16 volts and, of course, output varies directly with voltage.

Followup question:  For whatever power out 12 VDC provides for the Hilltopper 40 should I assume it will be EQUAL or LOWER for the Hilltopper 20?

Thanks in advance for some enlightenment; I'm a new group member.

72, Stan WB2LQF







Re: Hilltopper 40 Power Out at 12 VDC

Charles W. Powell
 

Oh good.  Some more fun with the scope!

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 13, 2019, at 8:30 PM, WA0ITP <wa0itp@...> wrote:

Correct!  Put your scope probe on the collector of the finals  If it is in Class E, You should see only positive rectangular pulses, such as the ones below.  The LPF filters out the harmonics making it sign wave. 

Dave has mentioned that the HT runs in Class C.  The second graph below show most classes and their conduction angles.  Class C is sinusoidal but is biased off for most of the cycle.  It can be very efficient too.

<oamobnajgjncnmhh.dib>


<nobdbcoledmglenc.png>
72 WAØITP
I love this radio stuff.
www.wa0itp.com
www.4sqrp.com
On 3/13/2019 6:32 PM, Charles W. Powell via Groups.Io wrote:
Question:  Can one tell from the waveform of the output of the BS170s what class amplifier is in operation?  If I understand correctly, Class E would show only a series of pulses, whereas class C would show a “round topped” upright square wave.

Any guru comments on this?

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 8, 2019, at 4:25 AM, Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:

Stan-

Good question!  (and nice going on all the kit building)

There shouldn't be much difference in power output between the two bands. There's plenty of drive from the paralleled logic gates. As a result, the PA devices should be in saturation either way.  As an aside, I'd heard from someone who tried the scheme on 50 MHz. He got 4W out.

From what I've heard, the QCX may be more prone to low power output. I don't know if that's a common occurence, though.  The QCX is configured for class-E but the component values don't make sense to me.  In the case of the Hilltopper, I was concerned about peak voltages (4*Vcc) and tolerance stack-ups. As a result, the Hilltopper runs class-C and not class-E.

73- Dave, K1SWL

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:45 PM StanWB2LQF <sjl219@...> wrote:

I'm about to purchase a Hilltopper 40 but first I would like to know how close to 5 watts output I can get from 12 VDC?  I built five QCX transceivers and not one of them ever approached 5 watts on 12 VDC and they also use three BS170 transistors.

In fairness to QCX Labs, they do indeed specify that the QCX transceivers operate on approx 6 to 16 volts and, of course, output varies directly with voltage.

Followup question:  For whatever power out 12 VDC provides for the Hilltopper 40 should I assume it will be EQUAL or LOWER for the Hilltopper 20?

Thanks in advance for some enlightenment; I'm a new group member.

72, Stan WB2LQF







Re: Hilltopper 40 Power Out at 12 VDC

WA0ITP
 

Correct!  Put your scope probe on the collector of the finals  If it is in Class E, You should see only positive rectangular pulses, such as the ones below.  The LPF filters out the harmonics making it sign wave. 

Dave has mentioned that the HT runs in Class C.  The second graph below show most classes and their conduction angles.  Class C is sinusoidal but is biased off for most of the cycle.  It can be very efficient too.




72 WAØITP
I love this radio stuff.
www.wa0itp.com
www.4sqrp.com
On 3/13/2019 6:32 PM, Charles W. Powell via Groups.Io wrote:

Question:  Can one tell from the waveform of the output of the BS170s what class amplifier is in operation?  If I understand correctly, Class E would show only a series of pulses, whereas class C would show a “round topped” upright square wave.

Any guru comments on this?

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 8, 2019, at 4:25 AM, Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:

Stan-

Good question!  (and nice going on all the kit building)

There shouldn't be much difference in power output between the two bands. There's plenty of drive from the paralleled logic gates. As a result, the PA devices should be in saturation either way.  As an aside, I'd heard from someone who tried the scheme on 50 MHz. He got 4W out.

From what I've heard, the QCX may be more prone to low power output. I don't know if that's a common occurence, though.  The QCX is configured for class-E but the component values don't make sense to me.  In the case of the Hilltopper, I was concerned about peak voltages (4*Vcc) and tolerance stack-ups. As a result, the Hilltopper runs class-C and not class-E.

73- Dave, K1SWL

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:45 PM StanWB2LQF <sjl219@...> wrote:

I'm about to purchase a Hilltopper 40 but first I would like to know how close to 5 watts output I can get from 12 VDC?  I built five QCX transceivers and not one of them ever approached 5 watts on 12 VDC and they also use three BS170 transistors.

In fairness to QCX Labs, they do indeed specify that the QCX transceivers operate on approx 6 to 16 volts and, of course, output varies directly with voltage.

Followup question:  For whatever power out 12 VDC provides for the Hilltopper 40 should I assume it will be EQUAL or LOWER for the Hilltopper 20?

Thanks in advance for some enlightenment; I'm a new group member.

72, Stan WB2LQF






Re: Hilltopper 40 Power Out at 12 VDC

prose062
 

I built a HT 40 in January for someone else.  I tested it at 4.8 watts on 12.0 volts, and 5.1 watts on 12.7 volts.  Output was clean, 2nd harmonic measured 46 dB down from carrier.  May vary a bit from build to build.

Paul - K0EET 

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 6:45 PM StanWB2LQF <sjl219@...> wrote:

I'm about to purchase a Hilltopper 40 but first I would like to know how close to 5 watts output I can get from 12 VDC?  I built five QCX transceivers and not one of them ever approached 5 watts on 12 VDC and they also use three BS170 transistors.

In fairness to QCX Labs, they do indeed specify that the QCX transceivers operate on approx 6 to 16 volts and, of course, output varies directly with voltage.

Followup question:  For whatever power out 12 VDC provides for the Hilltopper 40 should I assume it will be EQUAL or LOWER for the Hilltopper 20?

Thanks in advance for some enlightenment; I'm a new group member.

72, Stan WB2LQF


Re: Hilltopper 40 Power Out at 12 VDC

Charles W. Powell
 

Question:  Can one tell from the waveform of the output of the BS170s what class amplifier is in operation?  If I understand correctly, Class E would show only a series of pulses, whereas class C would show a “round topped” upright square wave.

Any guru comments on this?

72,

Chas - NK8O

On Mar 8, 2019, at 4:25 AM, Dave Benson <davek1swl@...> wrote:

Stan-

Good question!  (and nice going on all the kit building)

There shouldn't be much difference in power output between the two bands. There's plenty of drive from the paralleled logic gates. As a result, the PA devices should be in saturation either way.  As an aside, I'd heard from someone who tried the scheme on 50 MHz. He got 4W out.

From what I've heard, the QCX may be more prone to low power output. I don't know if that's a common occurence, though.  The QCX is configured for class-E but the component values don't make sense to me.  In the case of the Hilltopper, I was concerned about peak voltages (4*Vcc) and tolerance stack-ups. As a result, the Hilltopper runs class-C and not class-E.

73- Dave, K1SWL

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:45 PM StanWB2LQF <sjl219@...> wrote:

I'm about to purchase a Hilltopper 40 but first I would like to know how close to 5 watts output I can get from 12 VDC?  I built five QCX transceivers and not one of them ever approached 5 watts on 12 VDC and they also use three BS170 transistors.

In fairness to QCX Labs, they do indeed specify that the QCX transceivers operate on approx 6 to 16 volts and, of course, output varies directly with voltage.

Followup question:  For whatever power out 12 VDC provides for the Hilltopper 40 should I assume it will be EQUAL or LOWER for the Hilltopper 20?

Thanks in advance for some enlightenment; I'm a new group member.

72, Stan WB2LQF





Re: Hilltopper 40 Power Out at 12 VDC

Dave Benson
 

Stan-

Good question!  (and nice going on all the kit building)

There shouldn't be much difference in power output between the two bands. There's plenty of drive from the paralleled logic gates. As a result, the PA devices should be in saturation either way.  As an aside, I'd heard from someone who tried the scheme on 50 MHz. He got 4W out.

From what I've heard, the QCX may be more prone to low power output. I don't know if that's a common occurence, though.  The QCX is configured for class-E but the component values don't make sense to me.  In the case of the Hilltopper, I was concerned about peak voltages (4*Vcc) and tolerance stack-ups. As a result, the Hilltopper runs class-C and not class-E.

73- Dave, K1SWL


On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:45 PM StanWB2LQF <sjl219@...> wrote:

I'm about to purchase a Hilltopper 40 but first I would like to know how close to 5 watts output I can get from 12 VDC?  I built five QCX transceivers and not one of them ever approached 5 watts on 12 VDC and they also use three BS170 transistors.

In fairness to QCX Labs, they do indeed specify that the QCX transceivers operate on approx 6 to 16 volts and, of course, output varies directly with voltage.

Followup question:  For whatever power out 12 VDC provides for the Hilltopper 40 should I assume it will be EQUAL or LOWER for the Hilltopper 20?

Thanks in advance for some enlightenment; I'm a new group member.

72, Stan WB2LQF