Date   

Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

davemrtn
 

Jim,

    You mentioned minimum trace width.

    Playing around making a smt board for an oscilator I made this board with 0.016" (16mil) traces, and fortunately the even narrower spaces between (near the chips) did etch out ok.

The worst thing was dealing with solder bridges, so use of solder wick was required from time to time.




David Martin - NA1MH - Mountain Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------

On 2/22/2017 12:57, n5ib@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB



Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

Jim, N5IB
 


Forgot to mention something in the previous post...

Some folks are put off by the cost of the hot laminator we've been mentioning.

Like Doug pointed out, there are some bargain deals to be found, though they seem to be not as plentiful these days. And don't discount an iron and some elbow grease.

But I found my laminator to be well worth the dollars. It may nigh have paid for itself (compared to having Office Depot do it) laminating insurance cards, med lists, photos, membership cards, even the odd souvenir fall leaf collected on leaf peeping trips.

It also does a dandy job of making a panel overlay for radio projects. I found it was possible to make a full color panel layout on a laser printer, then put it down of a piece of copper clad PCB material, cover it with just one side of a laminating pouch, and run it through. The films sticks to the face of the paper nicely, but you can easilly peel it away from the copper and be left with a very flat, but well protected panel overlay. Trim and cut/drill/punch holes as needed. It lies flatter on the panel surface than if it were laminated on both sides.

Nick and I will try to work a demo of that also into out talk.

Jim, N5IB




Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

WA0ITP
 

Sounds like an informative and timely presentation, even for us ol dudes who
have been making our boards forever (seems like).  I'm looking forward to learning about new processes and materials. I've had pretty good luck using ink ink jet photo paper and an iron on the kitchen counter.  But this foil thing has me very interested.

Many thanks to Jim and Nick for presenting on this interesting subject.
72 WAØITP
I love this radio stuff.
www.wa0itp.com
www.4sqrp.com
On 2/22/2017 12:57 PM, n5ib@... [4sqrp] wrote:

 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB



Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

radiocaledon@...
 

I think I'm on the same path.  I've been trying to re-create boards using Chuck Adams methods, but with varying degrees of success.  Learning curve on using the software was huge, but I got past it.  Latest attempt was a lot of closely spaced traces but after 3-4 tries I was suffering quality issues in the transfer.    My little paper laminator just doesn't get hot enough, I think I need a badge laminator.  I tried the household iron, but was getting inconsistent results, partial transfers or distortion because of too much heat.

With a bit more research, I found someone using a hobby iron.  So have one of those on order ($27) to see if it gives me any better control over the transfer and heat.

Here's an interesting link I found which got me thinking about all the variables in the transfer.  Hope it is of some help.  Not sure I'd use his iron and rolling pin method, but how he chose to analyze the variables of heat/pressure etc helped me understand what I was trying to accomplish.


Good Luck
Hendrik - VA3HA


Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

Jim, N5IB
 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB


For sale: Magic Box, unbuilt kit

bleepingbeep
 

I have an unbuilt Magic Box kit for sale. This kit has been retired by 4SQRP. See the website for details.

$55 shipped USPS Priority Mail. PayPal OK.

Thanks.

Jerry AA6KI
Tucson




tonight's net

Wayne Dillon
 

Good afternoon all,
There will be a net this evening, again on 80m, 3564 Khz at 19:30 central (01:30z). 80 seems to be the new 40 after dark ( for a while anyway).
Hope to see you there,
Be blessed
Wayne- NQ0RP

--
 
QRP -  EFFICIENCY AND SKILL, NOT POWER. 
 
I'm British by birth but American by CHOICE!

Jesus came to pay a debt He didn't owe because we owe a debt we cannot pay...

The Lord bless you and keep you
The Lord make His face shine upon you, and be gracious unto you
The Lord lift up his contenance upon you and give you peace.

God Bless from Wayne Dillon - NQ0RP

Joshua 24:14-15
2 Cor 5:17
1 Jn 2:17
 
NAQCC MWN NCS
NAQCC Net manager
NAQCC # 0759
Membership Chairman - 4SQRP Group
4SQRP 40m NCS
4SQRP #95
FISTS 17184
FPQRP #342 (Flying Pigs QRP Club)
G-QRP-11504
QRP-ARCI #11505
SKCC #1155T
SOC #848
30MDG#1176
NEQRP #693
GORC #192
DMC (Digital Modes Club) # 06686
Zombie# 1186


Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

ki6ds13@...
 

Jim, I use the paper Chuck specifies, and it is $17 for 250 sheets. Tony Fishpool uses paper that he gets from advertising in the mail printed on slick paper. I think your covering how to do commercial boards is a fantastic next step. Good show. Bryan, I referenced Chuck's website in my previous post.


Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

John Lonigro
 

Bry:

I'm not sure if this is the same brand Jim uses, but I've had good luck with Pulsar Technologies.  Go to PCBFX.com for all the details.  A sheet of transfer paper isn't real cheap, but they explain how to make a lot of PCBs using just one sheet, as long as your PCBs aren't 8"x10".  I switched to this method and their supplies and haven't found anything better, unless I spend the money to have the PCB's professionally made.

BTW, Mouser and other suppliers handle the same product, in case you need to combine the order with electronic components.

72,

John, AA0VE


On 02/22/2017 09:44 AM, Bry Carling af4k@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

Thanks - sounds great. Where do you find the commercially sold transfer paper? Does it have a particular brand / name or description?


I wish I could be there but will try these techniques.


Bry AF4K




From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of n5ib@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:17 AM
To: 4sqrp@...
Subject: [4sqrp] Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS
 
 

Chuck has a nice video series on You Tube

the first part is at  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6AmT1trO60
Introduction showing some circuit construction using different techniques using printed circuit boards.


The presentation Nick and I will give at OzarkCon is about pretty much the same process. We just use the commercially sold transfer paper instead. I've found it is a bit faster and gave more consistent results and really isn't that costly. A $15 pack is enough to do several dozens of boards. I've been working on the same pack for three years now.

We'll also be talking about how to take the next step to using commercial board fab services. These are getting very reasonable now days. And since you generally get several boards at a time, its a great way to share projects.

Doug is right, if you latch on to some bargains, especially for the laminator and printer (or maybe you have the printer already) the rest of the stuff is little more than the cost of a pizza delivery. And you literally can go from a (simple) circuit idea to a finished board in an hour. Guys even profess success with a common household iron, but I've not been so lucky  :^))  

Jim, N5IB

---In 4sqrp@..., wrote :

This sounds great! Thanks for the shopping list.

Can you tell us where to find a description by Chuck of how to make the boards?

I would love to start using his method!

Bry, AF4K / WN4NRR


 


Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

Jay <aj4ay@...>
 

Jim,

 

Will your presentation be available in some form for those of us that can’t make it to OzarkCon?  I would really like to see it.

 

Regards,

Jay

AJ4AY

Mobile, AL

 

From: 4sqrp@... [mailto:4sqrp@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 7:17 AM
To: 4sqrp@...
Subject: [4sqrp] Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

 

 

Chuck has a nice video series on You Tube

the first part is at  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6AmT1trO60

The presentation Nick and I will give at OzarkCon is about pretty much the same process. We just use the commercially sold transfer paper instead. I've found it is a bit faster and gave more consistent results and really isn't that costly. A $15 pack is enough to do several dozens of boards. I've been working on the same pack for three years now.

We'll also be talking about how to take the next step to using commercial board fab services. These are getting very reasonable now days. And since you generally get several boards at a time, its a great way to share projects.

Doug is right, if you latch on to some bargains, especially for the laminator and printer (or maybe you have the printer already) the rest of the stuff is little more than the cost of a pizza delivery. And you literally can go from a (simple) circuit idea to a finished board in an hour. Guys even profess success with a common household iron, but I've not been so lucky  :^))  

Jim, N5IB

---In 4sqrp@..., <af4k@...> wrote :

This sounds great! Thanks for the shopping list.

Can you tell us where to find a description by Chuck of how to make the boards?

I would love to start using his method!

Bry, AF4K / WN4NRR

 

 


Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

Bry Carling <af4k@...>
 

Thanks - sounds great. Where do you find the commercially sold transfer paper? Does it have a particular brand / name or description?


I wish I could be there but will try these techniques.


Bry AF4K




From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of n5ib@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:17 AM
To: 4sqrp@...
Subject: [4sqrp] Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS
 
 

Chuck has a nice video series on You Tube

the first part is at  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6AmT1trO60
www.youtube.com
Introduction showing some circuit construction using different techniques using printed circuit boards.


The presentation Nick and I will give at OzarkCon is about pretty much the same process. We just use the commercially sold transfer paper instead. I've found it is a bit faster and gave more consistent results and really isn't that costly. A $15 pack is enough to do several dozens of boards. I've been working on the same pack for three years now.

We'll also be talking about how to take the next step to using commercial board fab services. These are getting very reasonable now days. And since you generally get several boards at a time, its a great way to share projects.

Doug is right, if you latch on to some bargains, especially for the laminator and printer (or maybe you have the printer already) the rest of the stuff is little more than the cost of a pizza delivery. And you literally can go from a (simple) circuit idea to a finished board in an hour. Guys even profess success with a common household iron, but I've not been so lucky  :^))  

Jim, N5IB

---In 4sqrp@..., <af4k@...> wrote :

This sounds great! Thanks for the shopping list.

Can you tell us where to find a description by Chuck of how to make the boards?

I would love to start using his method!

Bry, AF4K / WN4NRR


 


Bayou Jumper Endorsement

dekle@...
 

What a great endorsement on the W25 award!!!
Who will be the first to get "Bayou Jumper" or, better yet, "2X Bayou Jumper" on their W25 certificate?

Bill
KV6Z


Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

Jim, N5IB
 

Chuck has a nice video series on You Tube
the first part is at  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6AmT1trO60

The presentation Nick and I will give at OzarkCon is about pretty much the same process. We just use the commercially sold transfer paper instead. I've found it is a bit faster and gave more consistent results and really isn't that costly. A $15 pack is enough to do several dozens of boards. I've been working on the same pack for three years now.

We'll also be talking about how to take the next step to using commercial board fab services. These are getting very reasonable now days. And since you generally get several boards at a time, its a great way to share projects.

Doug is right, if you latch on to some bargains, especially for the laminator and printer (or maybe you have the printer already) the rest of the stuff is little more than the cost of a pizza delivery. And you literally can go from a (simple) circuit idea to a finished board in an hour. Guys even profess success with a common household iron, but I've not been so lucky  :^))  

Jim, N5IB

---In 4sqrp@..., <af4k@...> wrote :

This sounds great! Thanks for the shopping list.

Can you tell us where to find a description by Chuck of how to make the boards?

I would love to start using his method!

Bry, AF4K / WN4NRR


 


Re: OzarkCon Alert: Special Prize Package after the 60 Minute Circuit Board presentation

W0IIT
 

Ed,

You’ve done it again!!  You and your wife have made Ocon an extra special place to be if you are a QRP/Homebrew sort of person!!

Thanks for all you two do for the hobby and for QRP in particular!!!!

cu es 72, Bart W0IIT  4Sqrp #72
Pittsburg, KS


Re: Crystal sockets

Bry Carling <af4k@...>
 

We do have FT243 crystal sockets (and other types) at:

http://af4k.com/crystal_sockets.htm


73 - Bry AF4K / WN4NRR



From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of 'Sam Neal' n5af@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 9:55 PM
To: 4sqrp@...
Subject: Re: Re: [4sqrp] Crystal sockets
 
 


Hello,

This is slightly off what is being discussed. In the Ameco AC-1 clone partial
kit I am using, the designer intended for the user to use either a 1/4 inch
key jack - or plug the key into half of an 8 pin octal tube socket on the top
of the chassis using a gutted FT-243 xtal case, and using the other pins of
the socker to plug your xtal into.

I didn't do that. I wired the octal socket for crystals only.

Wire pins 1&2 together, pins 3&4 together, pins 5&6 together and 7&8 together.
Ground pins 1&2&5&6. Attach a wire so that 3&4 connect to 7&8 and run the
other end to the grid connection of the oscillator tube.

By doing this, you can plug your FT-243 into any combinations of pins that it
will fit into and not have to remember which two to use as you would the
other way.
Sam. Neal. N5AF
…..............................

Subject: Re: [4sqrp] Crystal sockets


MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

Bry Carling <af4k@...>
 

This sounds great! Thanks for the shopping list.


Can you tell us where to find a description by Chuck of how to make the boards?


I would love to start using his method!


Bry, AF4K / WN4NRR



From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of Doug Hendricks ki6ds1@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:10 AM
To: 4sqrp@...; Walter - K5EST
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] Re: OzarkCon Alert: Special Prize Package after the 60 Minute Circuit Board presentation
 
 

Gee, I didn't spend nearly that much for my supplies to build boards.  I think Nick uses the Chuck Adams, K7QO method that is on his web site.  I am a huge fan of that method, and have made over 100 boards without a single failure.  After trying for over 20 years and failing every single time, I was amazed at how easy it is once you use Chuck's method.  Here is what I spent:

Laminator $25 Ebay
Samsung 2020 Laser Printer, $49 Fry's
Pyrex dish, $5 dollar store
Digital Thermometer, $8 Harbor Freight
Plastic clamp $1 for 6, Harbor Freight
3% Hydrogen Peroxide, $1.89 for 32 ounces, Lucky's Grocery Store
Muriatic Acid, $5 gallon, Home Depot
Steel Wool, $2 Home Depot
3m scouring pad, $2 Orchard Supply
pcb, ebay $7

Adds up to $105.89.

Guess you guys must be including the computer, lol.  I recommend that you attend Nick's session, you will learn a lot.  The best thing is that you will then be able to build any circuit you want to.  It is like unlocking the world.  72, Doug

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Walter - K5EST walter.k5est@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 

Amazing prize drawing! Thanks, Ed.
73....Walter - K5EST



Re: OzarkCon Alert: Special Prize Package after the 60 Minute Circuit Board presentation

davemrtn
 

Doug,

    Nick is giving a presentation specifically on this subject at the coming OzarkCon.  Perhaps you would want to attend to get his first hand information ??

David Martin - NA1MH - Mountain Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------

On 2/21/2017 23:10, Doug Hendricks ki6ds1@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 
Gee, I didn't spend nearly that much for my supplies to build boards.  I think Nick uses the Chuck Adams, K7QO method that is on his web site.  I am a huge fan of that method, and have made over 100 boards without a single failure.  After trying for over 20 years and failing every single time, I was amazed at how easy it is once you use Chuck's method.  Here is what I spent:

Laminator $25 Ebay
Samsung 2020 Laser Printer, $49 Fry's
Pyrex dish, $5 dollar store
Digital Thermometer, $8 Harbor Freight
Plastic clamp $1 for 6, Harbor Freight
3% Hydrogen Peroxide, $1.89 for 32 ounces, Lucky's Grocery Store
Muriatic Acid, $5 gallon, Home Depot
Steel Wool, $2 Home Depot
3m scouring pad, $2 Orchard Supply
pcb, ebay $7

Adds up to $105.89.

Guess you guys must be including the computer, lol.  I recommend that you attend Nick's session, you will learn a lot.  The best thing is that you will then be able to build any circuit you want to.  It is like unlocking the world.  72, Doug

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Walter - K5EST walter.k5est@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 
Amazing prize drawing! Thanks, Ed.
73....Walter - K5EST



Re: QRP & Novice Rig Round Up - It's a Hoot!

Bry Carling <af4k@...>
 

Oh now I see the other link - thank you Sam!




From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of Johnny Matlock jomatlock@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 7:59 PM
To: 4sqrp@...; Sam Neal
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] QRP & Novice Rig Round Up - It's a Hoot!
 
 

Pretty neat Sam
But also kinda pricey!!
Although, transformers are out of sight in price now days!
72
Johnny AC0BQ 
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM 'Sam Neal' n5af@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 

Bry,

Try this link also. You may have to manually type it in.

Sam N5AF
KN5LZJ in 1957

pastimeprojects.com

--
Sent from Gmail Mobile


Re: QRP & Novice Rig Round Up - It's a Hoot!

Bry Carling <af4k@...>
 

How would yo order it? I see nothing on the web site that lets you order. Also I e-mailed NT9K and got no reply.


Bry WN4NRR



From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of Paul Smith psmith61@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:30 PM
To: Sam Neal; 4sqrp@...; Johnny Matlock
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] QRP & Novice Rig Round Up - It's a Hoot!
 
 

I am almost tempted to order a slatboard transmitter and pwr supply. I built on in 1990 and made a few contacts on it. it spit fire and cracklerd some but was fun. I saw some pieces in the attic a while back..... It was fun but not near as pretty as the pictures online.

de Paul N0NBD


Sent from Outlook




From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of Johnny Matlock jomatlock@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:59 AM
To: 4sqrp@...; Sam Neal
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] QRP & Novice Rig Round Up - It's a Hoot!
 
 

Pretty neat Sam
But also kinda pricey!!
Although, transformers are out of sight in price now days!
72
Johnny AC0BQ 
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 11:26 AM 'Sam Neal' n5af@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 

Bry,

Try this link also. You may have to manually type it in.

Sam N5AF
KN5LZJ in 1957

pastimeprojects.com

--
Sent from Gmail Mobile


Re: OzarkCon Alert: Special Prize Package after the 60 Minute Circuit Board presentation

davemrtn
 

WOW !!!


David Martin - NA1MH - Mountain Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------

On 2/21/2017 17:12, wg5f@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

At OzarkCon on Saturday morning:

We're going to have a SPECIAL drawing immediately after the "60 Minute Circuit Boards" presentation by Jim & Nick. 

We've lined up over $600 worth of supplies and equipment for making your own circuit boards.  It'll be given to one lucky winner!  You MUST BE PRESENT at the time the winning ticket is called.

Someone is going to be fully setup INSTANTLY to make their own circuit boards...

We've got some great donors and 4SQRP is also contributing some of the equipment.
See you at OzarkCon!

72,
-Ed, WG5F-


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