Another opinion:

I get ALL my pc boards made by Express PCB (see www.expresspcb.com). For
several reasons:

1. I prefer to spend my time on ELECTRONIC design (eg, circuit design),
not the ins and outs of
the chemistry and processing required for making homemade
printed-circuit boards.

2. When I get done designing a board, and getting it fabricated, I want
to be CERTAIN the board
is not part of the problem when trouble-shooting the loaded prototype
(first version) of the board.

3. I want to see my home laboratory full of electronic gadgetry and
tools, not a bunch of chemicals and
machines I had to buy to make my own boards at home. I want to be an
electroniker, not a chemist.

4. I don't want to bear the initial cost of those chemicals and
"machinery" needed to be able to crank out
the first homemade boards (which will easily exceed the cost of my first
two or three professional-quality
boards made by Express PCB).

5. I want to work with double-sided boards, with trace widths down to
0.010 inches, and plated-thru holes.
With those specs, I can cram a lot more electronics onto a smaller
board. FAR more circuit density than I
could possibly get with homemade boards.

Over the last few years, I have had several boards made for me by
Express. They provide (free) all software
needed for drawing the schematic, and laying out the physical board.
The s/w runs on any Windows machine
and can be expected to be flawless and frustration-free, if my
experience is any indication.

Usually I make sure I have a working circuit before going to the
printed-circuit version. For that, I use one of the
many kinds of cheap "prototyping boards" that are available from
companies like Jameco, Mouser and Digikey.
Then when that "messy prototype" is working, I go to my Windows machine,
and lay out the pc board with the
free Express PCB s/w provided for that purpose.

After I get the board layout finished, I click one button, and the board
design goes over the internet to Express PCB.
Less than one week later I have two copies of the board in my hand, via
UPS Blue delivery service.
And these are professional-quality double-sided boards with plated-thru
holes.

AND the total cost is always less than $100.

For my time and money, there is no contest - Express PCB wins by a
mile. And, BTW, I am NOT affiliated in any way
with Express PCB or any of its management people or employees. I'm just
one very satisfied Express customer, with
limited time and money for printed-circuit generation.

End of opinion.

73 - Bob, K6KL



On Wednesday, February 22, 2017 7:08 PM, "David Martin
davemrtn@centurytel.net [4sqrp]" <4sqrp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



.016 if more than reasonable when using a PCB House to make your boards.

Years ago I used the tape and mylar method for very complex boards,
usually laying out the boards, with solder mask and silkscreen and all
mylars were a minimum of 2x, if not 4x, requiring photo reduction prior
to the film being shipped to the fab house.
The iron I use for smt I purchased from radio shack when they still had
a store here. If you search there website for cat # 6400215, you will
see a photo of the iron.

More than the size of the iron, the diameter of the solder used will
have the greatest impact on your success while soldering smt components,
if you are using a roll of solder.

David Martin - NA1MH <https://www.qrz.com/lookup/na1mh> - Mountain Home,
Ar. -----------------------------------------
On 2/22/2017 16:26, Bry Carling wrote:

0.016" traces are quite reasonable.

We used to make PC boards designed with Tape and Light tables in the
mid 1970s
and the traces were often as narrow as 0.010" or 0.015" although
0.020" was preferable as a minimum.

THAT being said, I would not want to try to solder to traces that
small and that close together., Very challenging! What kind of IRON
and TIP did you use?

Thanks - Bry AF4K
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* 4sqrp@yahoogroups.com <mailto:4sqrp@yahoogroups.com>
<4sqrp@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:4sqrp@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of
David Martin davemrtn@centurytel.net <mailto:davemrtn@centurytel.net>
[4sqrp] <4sqrp@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:4sqrp@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 22, 2017 3:15 PM
*To:* 4sqrp@yahoogroups.com <mailto:4sqrp@yahoogroups.com>;
n5ib@juno.com <mailto:n5ib@juno.com>
*Subject:* Re: [4sqrp] Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS [1 Attachment]


Jim,
You mentioned minimum trace width.
Playing around making a smt board for an oscilator I made this
board with 0.016" (16mil) traces, and fortunately the even narrower
spaces between (near the chips) did etch out ok.
The worst thing was dealing with solder bridges, so use of solder wick
was required from time to time.

alt

David Martin - NA1MH <https://www.qrz.com/lookup/na1mh> - Mountain
Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------
On 2/22/2017 12:57, n5ib@juno.com <mailto:n5ib@juno.com> [4sqrp] wrote:

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other
re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to
soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue
that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the
"Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the
time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot
the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float
off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean
copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen
under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces
are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil"
product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched
copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils. The
foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but
some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have
lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen
boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling
was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad
idea. But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then
if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have
interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about
the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are
important..... ask me how I know :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly
avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

I received a homebrew QRP CW transceiver as a gift from Gary, N5PHT. I have no information on it, but it is a great design and works great. It was built by WB5MAJ who is now a silent key. I would very much like to obtain a schematic for it and any other information that I can find. The following is information that I obtained from just and inspection of the circuit board and from operating:

 

40 Meters Only

IF Frequency 4 MHz

Circuit contains a crystal filter made from three 4 MHz crystals

Two additional 4 MHz crystals
Circuit has three SA612 mixer chips

Output power is about 3.5 watts measured

VFO is very stable and uses varactor tuning and runs from about 3 MHz to about 3.150 MHz

 

The design appears to be very similar to the “Cub” which is sold by MFJ.

 

I am hoping that someone either has a schematic or article on this little rig.

 

Joe, N4YG

0.016" traces are quite reasonable.

We used to make PC boards designed with Tape and Light tables in the mid 1970s

and the traces were often as narrow as 0.010" or 0.015" although 0.020" was preferable as a minimum.

THAT being said, I would not want to try to solder to traces that small and that close together., Very challenging!� What kind of IRON and TIP did you use?

Thanks - Bry AF4K

---

From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of David Martin davemrtn@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 3:15 PM
To: 4sqrp@...; n5ib@...
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS [1 Attachment]

�

�

Jim,

��� You mentioned minimum trace width.

��� Playing around making a smt board for an oscilator I made this board with 0.016" (16mil) traces, and fortunately the even narrower spaces between (near the chips) did etch out ok.

The worst thing was dealing with solder bridges, so use of solder wick was required from time to time.

David Martin - NA1MH - Mountain Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------

On 2/22/2017 12:57, n5ib@... [4sqrp] wrote:

�

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited� toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.� The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.� But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know�� :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

Jim,

    You mentioned minimum trace width.

    Playing around making a smt board for an oscilator I made this board with 0.016" (16mil) traces, and fortunately the even narrower spaces between (near the chips) did etch out ok.

The worst thing was dealing with solder bridges, so use of solder wick was required from time to time.

David Martin - NA1MH - Mountain Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------

On 2/22/2017 12:57, n5ib@... [4sqrp] wrote:

 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

Jim,

    You mentioned minimum trace width.

    Playing around making a smt board for an oscilator I made this board with 0.016" (16mil) traces, and fortunately the even narrower spaces between (near the chips) did etch out ok.

The worst thing was dealing with solder bridges, so use of solder wick was required from time to time.

David Martin - NA1MH - Mountain Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------

On 2/22/2017 12:57, n5ib@... [4sqrp] wrote:

 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB