Date   
Re: Si5351 audio pops and PLL Lockups

WB9YZU
 

Thanks for the responses Nick and Dave!

I looked at the Hilltopper schematic tonight, and code to see how the encoder pull up was handled since it didn't appear to have any.
The encoder I am using is a KY-040; inexpensive and has 3 pull ups built in. I removed them, and configured the code and hardware to approximate the Hilltopper encoder, but used 220ohm instead of 470ohm resistors in series due to junk box availability.

All in all, between the 100uh chokes on the LCD power, and the revised configuration of the CLK/DT/Button pull up/supression, I don't seem to be getting the popping, but the PLL still unlocks occasionally ... Which still sucks as it involves shutting the rig off/reset and looses my place ;)

Before I made these changes though, I did play with separating the dial and frequency updates, and minimizing the LCD display routine to one lcd.print line.
The problem actually got worse, and that may have to do with Dave's insight on update times.

I'll continue to play with it. If I can't ""fix it"", I may just blame the corona virus ;)

--
, Ron WB9YZU

Re: 40 AND 80 METER NET REPORT

John - KK4ITX
 

Heard NCS bits and pieces at almost ESP levels on 40m.  Zip, Zero & Nada on 80m.

73,

John
KK4ITX 

Visit:  www.zaarc.org.   👁

On Mar 18, 2020, at 22:05, Johnny Matlock <jomatlock@...> wrote:

Ge Group:
The band conditions were not very net friendly tonight.
I had some friendly competition from the NA sprint and i had to move up to 3.564.5. 


40 Meter check in's were: 
WA9PWP PAUL 
K3NLT RUSS 

80 METER NET REPORT
N0YJ BERT 
WA9PWP PAUL 
K3NLT RUSS
Thanks Guys, Stay well! 
72 Johnny AC0BQ 

--
QRP....."More smiles per Watt"
72
JOHNNY AC0BQ  ..


Emergency Comm Email program

Johnny AC0BQ
 

Ge group
This video on QRZ might be of interest to you all.
If our internet goes down, this could 
Help keep us in contact with each
other.


72
Stay Well
Johnny AC0BQ 

--
Check out the 4SQRP website at 4sqrp.com

Delta Mike Romeo Net

Robert
 

Thanks to tonight's check ins

Tonights Net Topic What do you think is the best mode for emergency communications?

N0MII JEFF
KC0PP KEITH
N9EGT WAYNE
WG5F ED
N0SO MIKE
AC0BQ JOHNNY
KU5M JOE

THANKS AGAIN HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL NEXT WEEK

STAY WELL
73'S
BERT
N0YJ

40 AND 80 METER NET REPORT

Johnny AC0BQ
 

Ge Group:
The band conditions were not very net friendly tonight.
I had some friendly competition from the NA sprint and i had to move up to 3.564.5. 


40 Meter check in's were: 
WA9PWP PAUL 
K3NLT RUSS 

80 METER NET REPORT
N0YJ BERT 
WA9PWP PAUL 
K3NLT RUSS
Thanks Guys, Stay well! 
72 Johnny AC0BQ 

--
QRP....."More smiles per Watt"
72
JOHNNY AC0BQ  ..


Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets - Wed, 03/18/2020 #cal-notice

main@4SQRP.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets

When:
Wednesday, 18 March 2020
8:00pm to 9:00pm
(GMT-05:00) America/Chicago

Where:
40 and 80 Meters

Organizer:
jomatlock@...

Description:
The 40 Meter Net will be at 8:00 pm central time  on 7.122 +-. QRM
NCS is WQ5RP Operator to be determined.

Wednesday evening 80 Meter CW Net. will be at  (8:30PM Central Time Wednesday). 
The 80 meter net will be called on 3.564 MHz +/- QRM.
Net control operators are Johnny AC0BQ or Paul N0NBD.

* NEW *  Wednesday evening DMR Voice Net will be at (Thursday) 0300 UTC (9:00PM Central Time Wednesday/)
Four States QRP has a Brandmeister DMR Talk Group (TG31654). Join us to discuss QRP, ask questions, or just ragchew. The Wednesday net is a directed net  but any other time you may use the Talk Group to chat with other QRPers.
Net Control operator is Bert NØYJ.

Upcoming Event: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets - Wed, 03/18/2020 8:00pm-9:00pm #cal-reminder

main@4SQRP.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets

When: Wednesday, 18 March 2020, 8:00pm to 9:00pm, (GMT-05:00) America/Chicago

Where:40 and 80 Meters

View Event

Organizer: jomatlock@...

Description: The 40 Meter Net will be at 8:00 pm central time  on 7.122 +-. QRM
NCS is WQ5RP Operator to be determined.

Wednesday evening 80 Meter CW Net. will be at  (8:30PM Central Time Wednesday). 
The 80 meter net will be called on 3.564 MHz +/- QRM.
Net control operators are Johnny AC0BQ or Paul N0NBD.

* NEW *  Wednesday evening DMR Voice Net will be at (Thursday) 0300 UTC (9:00PM Central Time Wednesday/)
Four States QRP has a Brandmeister DMR Talk Group (TG31654). Join us to discuss QRP, ask questions, or just ragchew. The Wednesday net is a directed net  but any other time you may use the Talk Group to chat with other QRPers.
Net Control operator is Bert NØYJ.

Re: Fire In The Wire

Curt
 

I have had good luck with 1-5W on 20M with 34' wire up in a tree tuned with a KI6J Tuner that predated the Sota tuner.  Use it from my patio when weather n bugs permit,  Used it portable from Northern Ontario a decade ago with an ATS-3 @ 1W, made lot of contacts into all parts of the US from inside a cabin as the bugs never allowed outside.

My 2 cents.

Curt KB5JO

Re: Fire In The Wire

Jim Upson
 

Check out this site....FANTASTIC insight on building a Type 43 transformer....


especially go to the first link on page 1 From the above link.....here it is just to emphasize it....



73, Jim / AC3B 


On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 11:00 AM Joshua Wood <WoodJRx@...> wrote:
Thank you all for your ideas and recommendations,  in this thread and all the splintered ones, private and public!  My wife had minor sinus surgery, and I work in a hospital,  so I've been a bit preoccupied.   I'm definitely going to go through the responses as soon as I  can!

-Josh
W0ODJ 

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 14:10 Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:
From the consensus here, I think I'll make myself another full-sized W3EDP End-fed and try that next time I go operate at the park. It'll have to be when the parks are actually OPEN again, as the recent COVID-19 quarantine effort has caused them all to be closed, at least in my neck of the woods. That's literally...one of the parks in question is a humongous farm with big wooded areas here and there with trails throughout it. It's called the Norristown Farm Park, KFF-4363, and it's my favorite since it's only a mile or so from me. One of the side parking lots has a couple of handicapped spaces my van will fit into, and has a picnic table under a small shelter just 50-75 feet from the parking lot, so I can roll my little flat roller cart over there from my van and set up. There's plenty of room, a flat, grassy area, that I usually use for my wire antennas next to the table, so I set up my antenna, then set up the station under the shelter, and begin operating. The only end-fed I've used there so far is the SOTABeams end-fed with the built-in 20/30/40 tuner, and that works reasonably well. But I may just try a W3EDP this spring with my Elecraft T1 tuner and see what results I get.

I've got other experiments on the burner as well, including a dipole made of electric fence strap -- 15 parallel stainless-steel wires woven lengthwise into a 2" wide strap of poly webbing. It's used to make some fantastically wide-bandwidth single band dipoles, so I want to see if I can make a fan dipole using the stuff. There may be too much coupling between the wires, but it's worth a try. It might just need a lot of trimming to overcome the coupling. If that's the case, I may be able to make a decent multi-band fan dipole that's simpler to erect. I'd model it, but frankly, I don't yet know how to use the modeling software. I've got several programs, but they're so much Greek to me! hi hi

73
Gwen, NG3P

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 2:38 PM Tim N9PUZ <tim.n9puz@...> wrote:
I am a big fan of end fed antennas for portable use as well. Even when I
am in a wooded area I usually use my 31' or 28' Jackite pole as a
support. I attach the wire to the tip, extend the mast to its full
height, and then just let it lean into a tree.

Tim N9PUZ

On 3/16/2020 10:36 AM, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> Getting back to the original poster - I like the EFHW for field
> operations because it only needs one support. I'm a total klutz when
> it comes to getting lines through trees. I also like the Jackite pole
> (31') as a support.






--

-+-+-+-+-
Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time
http://quarktime.net

Re: For Sale

bobby rolph
 

 This is just a reminder that I still have both Hilltoppers for sale. 73
Bobby
KB4QNR

Re: Fire In The Wire

Joshua Wood
 

Thank you all for your ideas and recommendations,  in this thread and all the splintered ones, private and public!  My wife had minor sinus surgery, and I work in a hospital,  so I've been a bit preoccupied.   I'm definitely going to go through the responses as soon as I  can!

-Josh
W0ODJ 

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 14:10 Gwen Patton <ardrhi@...> wrote:
From the consensus here, I think I'll make myself another full-sized W3EDP End-fed and try that next time I go operate at the park. It'll have to be when the parks are actually OPEN again, as the recent COVID-19 quarantine effort has caused them all to be closed, at least in my neck of the woods. That's literally...one of the parks in question is a humongous farm with big wooded areas here and there with trails throughout it. It's called the Norristown Farm Park, KFF-4363, and it's my favorite since it's only a mile or so from me. One of the side parking lots has a couple of handicapped spaces my van will fit into, and has a picnic table under a small shelter just 50-75 feet from the parking lot, so I can roll my little flat roller cart over there from my van and set up. There's plenty of room, a flat, grassy area, that I usually use for my wire antennas next to the table, so I set up my antenna, then set up the station under the shelter, and begin operating. The only end-fed I've used there so far is the SOTABeams end-fed with the built-in 20/30/40 tuner, and that works reasonably well. But I may just try a W3EDP this spring with my Elecraft T1 tuner and see what results I get.

I've got other experiments on the burner as well, including a dipole made of electric fence strap -- 15 parallel stainless-steel wires woven lengthwise into a 2" wide strap of poly webbing. It's used to make some fantastically wide-bandwidth single band dipoles, so I want to see if I can make a fan dipole using the stuff. There may be too much coupling between the wires, but it's worth a try. It might just need a lot of trimming to overcome the coupling. If that's the case, I may be able to make a decent multi-band fan dipole that's simpler to erect. I'd model it, but frankly, I don't yet know how to use the modeling software. I've got several programs, but they're so much Greek to me! hi hi

73
Gwen, NG3P

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 2:38 PM Tim N9PUZ <tim.n9puz@...> wrote:
I am a big fan of end fed antennas for portable use as well. Even when I
am in a wooded area I usually use my 31' or 28' Jackite pole as a
support. I attach the wire to the tip, extend the mast to its full
height, and then just let it lean into a tree.

Tim N9PUZ

On 3/16/2020 10:36 AM, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> Getting back to the original poster - I like the EFHW for field
> operations because it only needs one support. I'm a total klutz when
> it comes to getting lines through trees. I also like the Jackite pole
> (31') as a support.






--

-+-+-+-+-
Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time
http://quarktime.net

Upcoming Event: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets - Wed, 03/18/2020 8:00pm-9:00pm #cal-reminder

main@4SQRP.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets

When: Wednesday, 18 March 2020, 8:00pm to 9:00pm, (GMT-05:00) America/Chicago

Where:40 and 80 Meters

View Event

Organizer: jomatlock@...

Description: The 40 Meter Net will be at 8:00 pm central time  on 7.122 +-. QRM
NCS is WQ5RP Operator to be determined.

Wednesday evening 80 Meter CW Net. will be at  (8:30PM Central Time Wednesday). 
The 80 meter net will be called on 3.564 MHz +/- QRM.
Net control operators are Johnny AC0BQ or Paul N0NBD.

* NEW *  Wednesday evening DMR Voice Net will be at (Thursday) 0300 UTC (9:00PM Central Time Wednesday/)
Four States QRP has a Brandmeister DMR Talk Group (TG31654). Join us to discuss QRP, ask questions, or just ragchew. The Wednesday net is a directed net  but any other time you may use the Talk Group to chat with other QRPers.
Net Control operator is Bert NØYJ.

Re: Si5351 audio pops and PLL Lockups

Dave Benson
 

Ron-

Without knowing what's in your firmware, I'll comment on those bypass caps to ground at the encoder.  When the contacts are in the 'open' state, the caps are being charged to 5V through a pullup resistor.  When the contacts close, though, the charge on the caps is discharged to ground at a pretty high instantaneous current.  That's a source of unwanted noise.  It can be remedied by adding a fairly low resistance (say, 100 ohms) in series from the caps to the encoder contacts.

If you're using a high-resolution encoder, there's an off chance you're generating frequency updates faster than the Si5351 can accept them.  Not sure what it would do then.  My recollection is that the updates take 5-10 milliseconds. It may also help to command the Si5351 outputs 'off' prior to any update and restore them only after the command sequence is complete. I was working with an earlier version of NT7S's library, though, and haven't kept current on newer library versions.

73- Dave,  K1SWL



Virus-free. www.avast.com


On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 9:09 AM WB9YZU via Groups.Io <wb9yzu=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Folks, I'm sure you folks have fielded this question before, but search results haven't been very fruitful.
My rig is a Forty-9er that I have modified to accept a VFO instead of a XTAL. I based the idea from a 2016 article in QST where the author used a I2C DDS and a parallel display.

I decided to take on the design and programming of the Arduino backbone myself and went with a Si5351a and put the display on the I2C bus via an adapter card that just piggybacks on the display. Nothing fancy. I'm using an inexpensive digital encoder to change frequencies.

The frequency is constantly being updated to the Si5351a, this is because keying requires that I change from a receive to a transmit frequency on the fly, and to avoid transmitting while the Si5351 is changing frequencies, I am keying the Forty-9er with the Arduino.

Everything seems to work pretty well, the radio does what it's supposed to do, and I have made a number of nice QSOs.
However the enjoyment is somewhat muted by this annoying popping and PLL dropout when dialing the rig.
When the PLL goes to lunch, I can't recover and I need to reset the radio. Though the symptom can appear most anywhere, it is much more prevalent around 7.055.

Steps I've taken do date:
Scoured the code and internet for clues. I am on my NthX2 attempt to write a decent code, the last attempt actually made it worse!
I verified that I am using the latest Etherkit Si5351a Library; version 2.1.4.
I tried to debounce the encoder by using an interrupt call and a debounce routine on the interrupt.; I also added .01uf caps across the encoder CLK and DT Lines to GND.

I read that the LCD is a noise source, so I installed 100uh coils on the power feed (+ & -)  to the display board. That cleaned up some audio noise.

From the number of Si5351a based QRP rigs, I assume a solution(s) has been found? What has worked for you folks?
--
, Ron WB9YZU

Re: Si5351 audio pops and PLL Lockups

Nick WA5BDU
 

Hoo boy, the joys of programming up a synthesizer for your rig!

I've been doing a lot of programming on a Si5351a with I & Q outputs recently but haven't had it actually connected to a receiver much as yet.

However, doing similar things with a Si570 I have heard that noise while tuning. It can be pretty pronounced and distracting but I'm grateful it's gone when I stop turning the knob.

In the early days of the KX3, Elecraft was fielding a lot of questions about this. The noise was referred to as "zipper noise".  Theirs was again an Si570 and the noise wasn't loud but was noticeable. I think they mainly used careful routing of certain wires to mitigate it. This may have been the I2C signals, I don't remember for sure.

Since it might come from one or more of three areas, you might try software experiments to see which makes the noise, or makes the most noise.  

First, have your encoder signals active but your MCU not sending any Si5351a control signals or LCD updates.

Next, have your MCU continuously updating the Si5351a with no encoder input and no LCD updates.

Third, have the MCU continuously updating the LCD with no encoder or data to the Si5351a happening.

As far as the chip losing PLL synch ... I'm not sure I've seen that on my Si5351a project but I used to see it some with the Si570 and I concluded it was RF interference. If my output from the chip was unterminated I'd have the problem, but if it were properly terminated, it did not occur. I think this happened mostly at VHF though.

In my current I/Q Si5351a project, I'm adding the bells and whistles to make it into a full featured VFO with things like band selection and having a keyed line input to tell it when to do the offset shift, plus RIT. 

As far as shifting between TX and RX goes ... it works fine but I realized a bit late I could have used the 3rd clock to go to the TX while the other two provide I & Q for the RX and there would be no need for switching when going from RX to TX and back.

I'm not using a library for the Si5351a control, which makes it easier to examine the code. I do have libraries for LCD and Wire (I2C).

73-

Nick, WA5BDU


On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 8:09 AM WB9YZU via Groups.Io <wb9yzu=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Folks, I'm sure you folks have fielded this question before, but search results haven't been very fruitful.
My rig is a Forty-9er that I have modified to accept a VFO instead of a XTAL. I based the idea from a 2016 article in QST where the author used a I2C DDS and a parallel display.

I decided to take on the design and programming of the Arduino backbone myself and went with a Si5351a and put the display on the I2C bus via an adapter card that just piggybacks on the display. Nothing fancy. I'm using an inexpensive digital encoder to change frequencies.

The frequency is constantly being updated to the Si5351a, this is because keying requires that I change from a receive to a transmit frequency on the fly, and to avoid transmitting while the Si5351 is changing frequencies, I am keying the Forty-9er with the Arduino.

Everything seems to work pretty well, the radio does what it's supposed to do, and I have made a number of nice QSOs.
However the enjoyment is somewhat muted by this annoying popping and PLL dropout when dialing the rig.
When the PLL goes to lunch, I can't recover and I need to reset the radio. Though the symptom can appear most anywhere, it is much more prevalent around 7.055.

Steps I've taken do date:
Scoured the code and internet for clues. I am on my NthX2 attempt to write a decent code, the last attempt actually made it worse!
I verified that I am using the latest Etherkit Si5351a Library; version 2.1.4.
I tried to debounce the encoder by using an interrupt call and a debounce routine on the interrupt.; I also added .01uf caps across the encoder CLK and DT Lines to GND.

I read that the LCD is a noise source, so I installed 100uh coils on the power feed (+ & -)  to the display board. That cleaned up some audio noise.

From the number of Si5351a based QRP rigs, I assume a solution(s) has been found? What has worked for you folks?
--
, Ron WB9YZU

Si5351 audio pops and PLL Lockups

WB9YZU
 

Hi Folks, I'm sure you folks have fielded this question before, but search results haven't been very fruitful.
My rig is a Forty-9er that I have modified to accept a VFO instead of a XTAL. I based the idea from a 2016 article in QST where the author used a I2C DDS and a parallel display.

I decided to take on the design and programming of the Arduino backbone myself and went with a Si5351a and put the display on the I2C bus via an adapter card that just piggybacks on the display. Nothing fancy. I'm using an inexpensive digital encoder to change frequencies.

The frequency is constantly being updated to the Si5351a, this is because keying requires that I change from a receive to a transmit frequency on the fly, and to avoid transmitting while the Si5351 is changing frequencies, I am keying the Forty-9er with the Arduino.

Everything seems to work pretty well, the radio does what it's supposed to do, and I have made a number of nice QSOs.
However the enjoyment is somewhat muted by this annoying popping and PLL dropout when dialing the rig.
When the PLL goes to lunch, I can't recover and I need to reset the radio. Though the symptom can appear most anywhere, it is much more prevalent around 7.055.

Steps I've taken do date:
Scoured the code and internet for clues. I am on my NthX2 attempt to write a decent code, the last attempt actually made it worse!
I verified that I am using the latest Etherkit Si5351a Library; version 2.1.4.
I tried to debounce the encoder by using an interrupt call and a debounce routine on the interrupt.; I also added .01uf caps across the encoder CLK and DT Lines to GND.

I read that the LCD is a noise source, so I installed 100uh coils on the power feed (+ & -)  to the display board. That cleaned up some audio noise.

From the number of Si5351a based QRP rigs, I assume a solution(s) has been found? What has worked for you folks?
--
, Ron WB9YZU

Re: SSB-Mite Question

ohwenzelph
 

It is interesting, the hi-per-mite has 8 plastic film caps which in some circles are valued at audio frequencies over other kinds. It’s not clear to me what kind and how much of a difference it makes and when to use them. My guess is that Dave actually understands it and might shed some light.
thanks
jer

Upcoming Event: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets - Wed, 03/18/2020 8:00pm-9:00pm #cal-reminder

main@4SQRP.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets

When: Wednesday, 18 March 2020, 8:00pm to 9:00pm, (GMT-05:00) America/Chicago

Where:40 and 80 Meters

View Event

Organizer: jomatlock@...

Description: The 40 Meter Net will be at 8:00 pm central time  on 7.122 +-. QRM
NCS is WQ5RP Operator to be determined.

Wednesday evening 80 Meter CW Net. will be at  (8:30PM Central Time Wednesday). 
The 80 meter net will be called on 3.564 MHz +/- QRM.
Net control operators are Johnny AC0BQ or Paul N0NBD.

* NEW *  Wednesday evening DMR Voice Net will be at (Thursday) 0300 UTC (9:00PM Central Time Wednesday/)
Four States QRP has a Brandmeister DMR Talk Group (TG31654). Join us to discuss QRP, ask questions, or just ragchew. The Wednesday net is a directed net  but any other time you may use the Talk Group to chat with other QRPers.
Net Control operator is Bert NØYJ.

For Sale

bobby rolph
 

Hello. I have a couple of Hilltoppers for sale. Both units are already assembled and working properly. I have one 40m and one 20m transceivers. I am asking $80 for each unit of $150 if you would like to purchase both. I will cover the shipping for the US lower 48 states. I am selling to fund a new project. Just email me privately if you are interested. 73
KB4QNR
Bobby Rolph

Re: Test build on 'Circ-Key' - found a problem to report

nm0s_qrp <ai9e_qrp@...>
 

What you discovered is a _feature_! The battery power is only connected when the cable is plugged in. That way you can power down the keyer without having to disconnect the battery.

Test build on 'Circ-Key' - found a problem to report

wa2cky
 

Not sure if there is anyone, in particular, that I should sent this to but I did find a 'bug' in the pc board.  Not critical as it was easily fixed but none-the-less should be noted.

Problem: the battery negative terminal is NOT routed to the 'ground' layer on the board. The '-9V' only goes to the Key Output jack and not to any of the other 'ground' connections (e.g. the U1-8 and U2-7).

Fix was easy - a short piece of wire from the 9V battery negative connection to the mounting hole/ground layer about a 1/4" away. 

Now back to the testing.

Bob, WA2CKY