Date   

Re: A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

Don Wilhelm <w3fpr@...>
 

Chuck,

That is CW to me.� The transmit carrier is to be placed *at* that listed center frequency.� Are you being confused by the "1.5 kHz above the
suppressed carrier frequency as specified in the Report and Order".� Yes, the Report and Order specifies the low edge of the band, which is the correct suppressed carrier frequency for an Upper Sideband signal.

The confusion comes from how some transceivers display the frequency in CW.� Many indicate the carrier frequency and should be set to the channel center frequency.
Other transceivers display the transmit carrier frequency plus or minus the sidetone pitch.� For those, you must compensate.

I know for certain that Elecraft transceivers display the transmit carrier frequency and automatically offset the receive by the amount of the sidetone pitch so you can hear a CW signal on the frequency indicated on the dial.

In other words, you have to know how your transceiver handles the displayed frequency in CW - the transmit frequency or offset by the sidetone pitch.� A study of the owner's manual should tell you which it is.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/10/2015 2:23 PM, Chuck Carpenter w5usj@... [4sqrp] wrote:
�

Jim,

Here's a technical description of CW on 60 from Recommended Practices...

At 01:04 PM 6/10/2015, you wrote:
>Ummmmmmmmmmm------- one can operate cw on 60 meters and not SSB, Chuck.

-----
As updated 5 March 2012, Sounds like SSB to me??

CW Operation
CW operation must take place at the center of
your chosen channel. This means that your
transmitting frequency must be 1.5 kHz above the
suppressed carrier frequency as specified in the
Report and Order (see Table 1).
The channel center frequencies are �
Channel 1: 5332.0 kHz
Channel 2: 5348.0 kHz
Channel 3: 5358.5 kHz
Channel 4: 5373.0 kHz
Channel 5: 5405.0 kHz
Consult your transceiver manual. Some
transceivers transmit CW at the exact frequencies
shown on their displays, but others offset the
actual transmission frequency by a certain amount
(for example, 600 Hz). If your manual is not
clear on this point, contact the manufacturer. If
you have access to a frequency counter, this is
an excellent tool for ensuring that your CW
signal is on the channel center frequency.

---



A simple 60 meter CW transmitter

Wayne Dillon
 

5 channels = 5 xtals?, maybe a push button to "scroll" through the channels with a simple LED indicator to report which channel it's set to?
Wayne - KC0PMH

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A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Part 97

Chuck Carpenter
 

OK,

Part 97 states specifically that the CW carrier must be set to the exact frequency.

So, to me, that would imply that a well designed CW transmitter could be used on 60 meters.

I'd think that you could still use your synthesized SSB transmitter in CW mode as long as you know that your transmitted frequency is as specified. The ARRL docs suggest using a frequency counter...

However, that doesn't fit the category of simple...


Chuck Carpenter, W5USJ
EM22cv, Rains Co. TX


Re: A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Don,

That's one way it could be done. Once upon a time some people like Collins did it that way. If it isn't adjusted just exactly so you transmit spurious crap. Applying Murphy's law... Some hams have a tendency toward "all knobs full right".

Somebody who has only an SSB transmitter (probably a transceiver) CW could be done that way (tone into the mic amp) with appropriate care. On receive you could use RIT to hear the tone you want. For me that would be around about 500 to 650 cps (I can't hear Hertz). With separate TX/RX RIT doesn't mean nearly as much (but is not useless).

If I remember...this thread started with homebrew or "simple" kit projects for unfilled niches. Hams have successfully built SSB rigs from scratch and from kits so I guess you puts your money down and you takes your choice.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 06/10/2015 03:06 PM, Don Sanders w4bws1@gmail.com [4sqrp] wrote:
So you would need to modulate a SSB TX with audio tone to simulate CW
making sure the TX was on the correct channel freq.
Seems hard way to make a simple CW TX for 60 meters.

Dr. Don HC4/W4BWS


Re: A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

Donald Sanders
 

So you would need to modulate a SSB TX with audio tone to simulate CW 
making sure the TX was on the correct channel freq.
Seems hard way to make a simple CW TX for 60 meters.

Dr. Don HC4/W4BWS

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Chuck Carpenter w5usj@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 



The requirements for operation on 60 meters are not so simple.

The transmitter would need to be SSB (upper only) including specific
capabilities.

You can read about them here... http://www.arrl.org/60-meter-faq

And more specifically the Recommended Practices link found on that page.

Chuck Carpenter, W5USJ
EM22cv, Rains Co. TX

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Re: A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Jim...
....Chuck,

The TX doesn't have to have SSB capability at all but does have to have the SSB or CW carrier on a specific frequency +/- the mandated tolerances (not too difficult). Some hams complained that would give them a 1500 Hz CW tone, but that really is subject to how you choose to receive it. You may use a one tube blooper (receiver) if you so choose along with whatever RX tone you like.

I am laying one out to use temp compensated xtal oscillator modules (that I already have). It will include a USB and a CW xtal plus one heterodyne xtal for each channel (seven TCXO modules). And by the way it will only be the transmitter. The transmitter channel frequencies are specified. And the receiver is not regulated at all.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 06/10/2015 02:04 PM, James Rodenkirch rodenkirch_llc@msn.com [4sqrp] wrote:


Ummmmmmmmmmm------- one can operate cw on 60 meters and not SSB, Chuck...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: 4sqrp@yahoogroups.com
From: 4sqrp@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:59:11 -0500
Subject: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT



The requirements for operation on 60 meters are not so simple.

The transmitter would need to be SSB (upper only) including specific
capabilities.

You can read about them here... http://www.arrl.org/60-meter-faq

And more specifically the Recommended Practices link found on that page.

Chuck Carpenter, W5USJ
EM22cv, Rains Co. TX

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Re: A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

Charles W. Powell
 

Chuck - not to start a flame war, and with all due respect.  CW is acceptable on 60 meters, and there is no restriction that would prohibit a CW only transceiver.  

"Effective March 5, 2012  the FCC has permitted CW, USB, and certain digital modes on these frequencies. The National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) is the primary user of the 60-meter band.

The requirements are that the frequencies used be “on channel”, and implicit in that, pretty strict frequency control is needed. It would have to be a very stable transmitter. Maximum ERP is 100 watts, so it’s pretty unlikely that a 5 watt transmitter would exceed this level.  I don’t think I have enough real estate for a big enough LPDA or Yagi-Udo to have 13 dB of gain on 60 meters!

Chas - NK8O

On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:59, Chuck Carpenter w5usj@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:

 



The requirements for operation on 60 meters are not so simple.

The transmitter would need to be SSB (upper only) including specific
capabilities.

You can read about them here... http://www.arrl.org/60-meter-faq

And more specifically the Recommended Practices link found on that page.

Chuck Carpenter, W5USJ
EM22cv, Rains Co. TX

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Re: A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

James Rodenkirch
 

Doesn't all of that mean your CW signal must be dead on the center channel frequency?
 
I.E., is your transmitter doesn't have an off-set, set it on the center frequency...if your transmitter has an off-set, adjust your xmtr's window frequency accordingly....sound like CW to me, Chuck....Emoji


 
> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:23:21 -0500
> To: 4sqrp@...; rodenkirch_llc@...
> From: w5usj@...
> Subject: RE: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT
>
> Jim,
>
> Here's a technical description of CW on 60 from Recommended Practices...
>
> At 01:04 PM 6/10/2015, you wrote:
> >Ummmmmmmmmmm------- one can operate cw on 60 meters and not SSB, Chuck.
>
> -----
> As updated 5 March 2012, Sounds like SSB to me??
>
> CW Operation
> CW operation must take place at the center of
> your chosen channel. This means that your
> transmitting frequency must be 1.5 kHz above the
> suppressed carrier frequency as specified in the
> Report and Order (see Table 1).
> The channel center frequencies are …
> Channel 1: 5332.0 kHz
> Channel 2: 5348.0 kHz
> Channel 3: 5358.5 kHz
> Channel 4: 5373.0 kHz
> Channel 5: 5405.0 kHz
> Consult your transceiver manual. Some
> transceivers transmit CW at the exact frequencies
> shown on their displays, but others offset the
> actual transmission frequency by a certain amount
> (for example, 600 Hz). If your manual is not
> clear on this point, contact the manufacturer. If
> you have access to a frequency counter, this is
> an excellent tool for ensuring that your CW
> signal is on the channel center frequency.
>
> ---
>
> Not finding anything that you can transmit directly on the carrier frequecy...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck Carpenter, W5USJ
> EM22cv, Rains Co. TX
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>


Re: New KX3

Jeremy Utley
 

Hope you enjoy yours as much as I will enjoy mine!

Jeremy, NQ0M

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 12:19 PM, gary.w0gx@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 

I've had numerous K2s and K1s over the years.  Other than tiring audio (to my ears) at times they have been amazing.

And now I have a brand new KX3 on the desk.  Wow!  My only antenna at the moment is a 17m doublet tacked to the ceiling .... and the KXAT3 tunes it up on 40-10 without straining.  Great receive audio. 

Now I need to get the CW and Data working.

And get that 160m antenna back up.

And maybe a loop for 40-10 somewhere.

And ... operate this thing.  :-)

Have a great day all.

Gary/w0gx
In SC




Re: A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

Rick Bennett
 

I haven't posted anything here for a long time.  Here is the exact text from the latest FCC Part 97:

"(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60 m band), amateur stations may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified in the table below. In order to meet this requirement, control operators of stations transmitting phone, data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center frequency as specified in the table below. For CW emissions (emission designator 150HA1A), the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency. Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions do not occupy more than 2.8 kHz centered on each of these center frequencies."

CW is a permitted mode since 2012 as is USB phone, and "certain digital modes".

By the way 60m is a great NVIS band for those interested in that type of operation

de KC0PET, Rick



From: <4sqrp@...>
To: 4sqrp@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 1:04:11 PM
Subject: RE: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

 

 
Ummmmmmmmmmm------- one can operate cw on 60 meters and not SSB, Chuck...
 

To: 4sqrp@...
From: 4sqrp@...
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:59:11 -0500
Subject: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

 


The requirements for operation on 60 meters are not so simple.

The transmitter would need to be SSB (upper only) including specific
capabilities.

You can read about them here... http://www.arrl.org/60-meter-faq

And more specifically the Recommended Practices link found on that page.

Chuck Carpenter, W5USJ
EM22cv, Rains Co. TX

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Re: A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

Chuck Carpenter
 

Jim,

Here's a technical description of CW on 60 from Recommended Practices...

At 01:04 PM 6/10/2015, you wrote:
Ummmmmmmmmmm------- one can operate cw on 60 meters and not SSB, Chuck.
-----
As updated 5 March 2012, Sounds like SSB to me??

CW Operation
CW operation must take place at the center of
your chosen channel. This means that your
transmitting frequency must be 1.5 kHz above the
suppressed carrier frequency as specified in the
Report and Order (see Table 1).
The channel center frequencies are …
Channel 1: 5332.0 kHz
Channel 2: 5348.0 kHz
Channel 3: 5358.5 kHz
Channel 4: 5373.0 kHz
Channel 5: 5405.0 kHz
Consult your transceiver manual. Some
transceivers transmit CW at the exact frequencies
shown on their displays, but others offset the
actual transmission frequency by a certain amount
(for example, 600 Hz). If your manual is not
clear on this point, contact the manufacturer. If
you have access to a frequency counter, this is
an excellent tool for ensuring that your CW
signal is on the channel center frequency.

---

Not finding anything that you can transmit directly on the carrier frequecy...







Chuck Carpenter, W5USJ
EM22cv, Rains Co. TX


Re: A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

James Rodenkirch
 

 
Ummmmmmmmmmm------- one can operate cw on 60 meters and not SSB, Chuck...
 

To: 4sqrp@...
From: 4sqrp@...
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:59:11 -0500
Subject: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

 


The requirements for operation on 60 meters are not so simple.

The transmitter would need to be SSB (upper only) including specific
capabilities.

You can read about them here... http://www.arrl.org/60-meter-faq

And more specifically the Recommended Practices link found on that page.

Chuck Carpenter, W5USJ
EM22cv, Rains Co. TX

---
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A simple 60 meter CW transmitter -- Maybe NOT

Chuck Carpenter
 

The requirements for operation on 60 meters are not so simple.

The transmitter would need to be SSB (upper only) including specific capabilities.

You can read about them here... http://www.arrl.org/60-meter-faq

And more specifically the Recommended Practices link found on that page.

Chuck Carpenter, W5USJ
EM22cv, Rains Co. TX


Re: A niche not filled

Charlie Vest
 

I'll jump in here too.

In my own personal opinion, 60 meters is an absolutely excellent choice. Also the full 5 watts or more should be kept as the power level. It would make a great project and useful rig.

Second choice would be 30 meters.

Both great bands, but both are very much under utilized.

I think that I have a lifetime supply of 80-40-20 rigs and accessories to play with.

Charlie, W5COV

On 6/10/2015 12:35 PM, Johnny Matlock jomatlock@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

I'm good for this type of rig as well!

I have more 20-40-80 m stuff to play with.
72
Johnny AC0BQ 

On Wednesday, June 10, 2015, yahoomail@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 

Robert;

I think your idea of a simple 5W, 5-channel 60 meter CW rig is a great idea!

72/3,

-Ed, WG5F-



--
QRP....."More smiles per Watt"
72
JOHNNY AC0BQ  ..







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Re: A niche not filled

Johnny AC0BQ
 

I'm good for this type of rig as well!
I have more 20-40-80 m stuff to play with.
72
Johnny AC0BQ 


On Wednesday, June 10, 2015, yahoomail@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 

Robert;

I think your idea of a simple 5W, 5-channel 60 meter CW rig is a great idea!

72/3,

-Ed, WG5F-



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72
JOHNNY AC0BQ  ..




New KX3

Gary / af7t
 

I've had numerous K2s and K1s over the years.  Other than tiring audio (to my ears) at times they have been amazing.

And now I have a brand new KX3 on the desk.  Wow!  My only antenna at the moment is a 17m doublet tacked to the ceiling .... and the KXAT3 tunes it up on 40-10 without straining.  Great receive audio. 

Now I need to get the CW and Data working.

And get that 160m antenna back up.

And maybe a loop for 40-10 somewhere.

And ... operate this thing.  :-)

Have a great day all.

Gary/w0gx
In SC



Re: A niche not filled

yahoomail@...
 

Robert;

I think your idea of a simple 5W, 5-channel 60 meter CW rig is a great idea!

72/3,

-Ed, WG5F-


ats3

james davidson
 

got the diff. rig bug hi hi  selling ats4. by kd1jv . works fine have documentation cd   with any one interested qrz is good e mail .  what are the selling for?  contact jim  kc0dd


SSS is this Sunday!

John Lonigro
 

This coming Sunday is the "SECOND SUNDAY SPRINT". It's a good opportunity to brush up on your CW prior to Field Day.

Here are the details, which should be familiar to all by now:

Date/time: Sunday, 14 June, 2015, 7:00 pm to 9:00 pm CDT (0000 - 0200Z Monday).
Bands: 160M through 10M, no WARC bands or 60M.
Frequencies: The usual QRP CW watering holes: 7122 kHz and 3564 kHz.
Also check out these QRP SB watering holes: 3985 kHz, 7285 kHz, 14285 kHz, 21385 kHz, and 28385 kHz
Power: 5 Watts maximum (even on sideband).
Mode: CW or sideband (see above for recommended frequencies).
Exchange: RST, SPC, and member number (members) or RST, SPC, power (non-members).
Calling CQ: "CQ 4S" recommended.

Note: Contacts with the same station on different bands are allowed. Beware: The
sideband and CW portions of a band count as the same band.

Reporting is easy:
Add up your QSOs for each band/mode and send that number to me.

With that in mind, a typical report would be:

Name: Sparky
Call: K9MUT
QTH: Branson, MO
4SQRP number: 5280
Results:
40M: 3 QSOs
80M: 6 QSOs
Total: 9 QSOs

You do not need to list the stations contacted or mode. But if you make
an exotic contact, you might as well brag about it in an optional
bragging section at the bottom of your submittal. I'll include any soapbox comments
when I report the scores (no extra credit).

When you've totaled your score, please send it to:
secondsundaysprint@4sqrp.com. Put "Sprint" in the subject line. Send the
results by Monday evening if at all possible. I'll tally everything and publish them on
this reflector as soon as possible. I suggest you send them in shortly
after 9:00 pm Sunday so you don't forget. If you see a mistake or
omission when I publish the results, let me know and I'll fix it.

Keep this email until after you've submitted your score for Sunday.
Remember, the 4SQRP member with the most SSS contacts between November, 2014
and September, 2015 will be allowed to use the club's callsign, WQ5RP,
for the 4X4 sprint in October, 2015.

The SSS rules are posted on the 4SQRP website, under "4SQRP On Air
Activities", just in case you delete this email.

72 and good luck in the contest,

John AA0VE
SSS Coordinator


Re: Argo VI

w7aqk@...
 

Terry and All,

Boy Terry, you convinced me all over again that I wouldn't want one of those rigs!

Yes, I am sure it is a competent radio in most respects.  However, the negatives are pretty glaring in my viiew. 

No XIT is a biggee!  Not for everyone perhaps, but if you chase DX it probably is.  When you are QRP you need both the RIT and XIT to sneak into spaces where you can be heard.

I am still totally astounded that the rig omits 12 and 60 meters.  Maybe most don't venture onto 60 meters yet, but they may eventually.  12 meters is a critical band, again if you are at all interested in DXing.  As a WARC band, it is also a refuge from contests you don't care to participate in. 

As an aside, last year at Dayton the new Ten-Tec owners were very visible at our FDIM gathering.  One of them overheard me commenting to someone else about my 35 year romance with Ten-Tec that had sort of ended.  He was very interested in hearing more of what to say, so I told him.  When I got to the part about questioning the rationale of omitting 12 and 60 meters on the Argo VI, he nodded his head as if he totally agreed with me.  I think his reaction was sincere and not patronizing!  I also have a big problem with the ergonomics on many of the more recent Ten-Tec offerings, and he seemed sympathetic with those comments as well.

I wasn't even aware of the keying issue you mentioned, but that would be a deal breaker for me also.  Actually, that rather surprises me.

One thing you didn't mention was that, for Field Day, the Argo VI isn't that great a choice considering its RX current draw.  If you plan to operate 1B-Battery, you may want to use a different rig.

A lot of the issues I have with the Argo VI is that I think they were intent on "simplifying" the radio.  I think they overdid it!  The front panel is bare bones to a fault.  For example, I really want fast access to some adjustments (like power and keyer speed), and you no longer get that on a lot of Ten-Tec rigs.  I have a prediction as to when stripped down front panels like this will make sense.  That's when we "marry" radios to voice recognition software!  Then you can just speak a command to make various adjustments on the fly!  Until then, we need to get our fingers on certain adjustments, and quickly.

Notwithstanding the above, I have listened to an Argo VI, and it does sound very good!  If you can get around all the nit-picking, it's a pretty good radio!

Dave W7AQK

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