Date   

Re: 40 and 80 Meter Net Report

Johnny AC0BQ
 

Gm Chas
I must say, your signal last night may have been the best that I have heard from you.
I actually copied more than ur call and my signal report!!
Good job.
72
Johnny ACØBQ 

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 9:30 PM <w2sh@...> wrote:
My 40m QNI was a nice piece of cake both ways.   On 80m I listened for several minutes to a number of signals whose strength was 4 to 5.  However readability was zero because of nearby thunderstorm activity.  The QRN was deafening, so I disconnected the antennas, grounded them and pulled the AC power plug.. 

The storms will abate tomorrow afternoon and I will QNI the NEQRP net on 3.566 mHz Thursdays at 2030 ET.

If you want to find out how a net is properly conducted, listen, or better yet QNI;  NCS Chuck, K1CL, is an impeccable maestro.

72,

Charles (aka Chas), W2SH


From: main@4SQRP.groups.io <main@4SQRP.groups.io> on behalf of Johnny AC0BQ <jomatlock@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 22:01
To: 4sqrpio <4SQRP@groups.io>
Subject: [4SQRP] 40 and 80 Meter Net Report
 
Ge Group 
Not a bad net for tough band conditions. 

Check in's were: 
40 Meters
KW4JS
K4EQ
N4ELM 
W2SH 

80 Meters was a little better, believe it not! 
Check in's were:
N0YJ
KL7IXI 
K4EQ Double 
N4ELM Double 
WG5F 
K5TD (Almost) lost him on the return. 

Thanks everyone, stay cool and Safe! 
72 
Johnny AC0BQ


--
Charles Moizeau, W2SH

--
Check out the 4SQRP website at 4sqrp.com


Re: Question About The 4 States Antenna Tuner

Jeff Logullo N0̸MII
 

Dave,

Glad you have solved the mystery of your tuner's behavior!

Here's an article that you -- and others -- might enjoy: 

   Getting the Most Out of Your T-Network Antenna Tuner, by Andrew Griffith W4ULD (from QST January 1995)

"To achieve the highest possible efficiency at a given impedance transformation, tune the network with the highest output capacitance that allows a match."

The section on the last page, "For Tapped-Inductor Tuners" summarizes the process to follow to accomplish the above.

Jeff N0MII

On Jun 6, 2020, at 5:19 PM, Dave W0DCX <cwqrp73@...> wrote:

Well well well.  This has been pretty interesting, somewhat humiliating, and rather humorous.  I followed Jim's directive and, at least with the dummy load in place, the Tuner at last seems to be behaving as one might expect. So maybe I did assemble it correctly!  Who would have thought!  In the final step, as per Jim's advice, I replaced my NanoVNA with my transceiver set on 40-meters at 1 watt and obtained the same LED pattern on the Tuner.  Interestingly, when I switched to 20-meters at first it seemed not to work well.  But I was assuming there was an incremental pattern of tuning to be expected when adjusting the inductor.  I had previously assumed that I could "bracket" the inductor settings to more quickly figure out the best tuning, but I guess not.  I think one has to try each and every inductor setting more methodically.  Lo and behold I found that 20-meters gave me the green light when I had the inductor at the B position, Cap-L at 10 and Cap-R at 0.  B is the next to highest setting of A which worked well for 40-meters.  Lesson learned is that I need to be completely empirical when trying to adjust the tuner for the best match and not assume any patterns will emerge.  But the big question now is how will this all work with an actual antenna instead of a dummy load?  I was flummoxed when I first tried it on my AX1 vertical whip, but maybe now that I understand the tuning process better I can get it to work with that and other antennas too.
Thanks!
Dave W0DCX


--
Jeff N0̷MII


Re: 40 and 80 Meter Net Report

n4mj
 

GE Johnny.  I listened for the net but didn't hear anyone.  Band was unusually noisy for the chosen frequency.
Still no 80m capability so that was out.

Looks like it will be a couple of months before I get the tower up and new wire antennas higher than 18'. hi hi

Will try again next week.

73 de n4mj


 
PLEASE REMOVE all email addresses before you send it on and use BCC option when forwarding"
  Thank you! 



On Wednesday, June 10, 2020, 09:02:03 PM CDT, Johnny AC0BQ <jomatlock@...> wrote:


Ge Group 
Not a bad net for tough band conditions. 

Check in's were: 
40 Meters
KW4JS
K4EQ
N4ELM 
W2SH 

80 Meters was a little better, believe it not! 
Check in's were:
N0YJ
KL7IXI 
K4EQ Double 
N4ELM Double 
WG5F 
K5TD (Almost) lost him on the return. 

Thanks everyone, stay cool and Safe! 
72 
Johnny AC0BQ


Re: 40 and 80 Meter Net Report

w2sh@...
 

My 40m QNI was a nice piece of cake both ways.   On 80m I listened for several minutes to a number of signals whose strength was 4 to 5.  However readability was zero because of nearby thunderstorm activity.  The QRN was deafening, so I disconnected the antennas, grounded them and pulled the AC power plug.. 

The storms will abate tomorrow afternoon and I will QNI the NEQRP net on 3.566 mHz Thursdays at 2030 ET.

If you want to find out how a net is properly conducted, listen, or better yet QNI;  NCS Chuck, K1CL, is an impeccable maestro.

72,

Charles (aka Chas), W2SH


From: main@4SQRP.groups.io <main@4SQRP.groups.io> on behalf of Johnny AC0BQ <jomatlock@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 22:01
To: 4sqrpio <4SQRP@groups.io>
Subject: [4SQRP] 40 and 80 Meter Net Report
 
Ge Group 
Not a bad net for tough band conditions. 

Check in's were: 
40 Meters
KW4JS
K4EQ
N4ELM 
W2SH 

80 Meters was a little better, believe it not! 
Check in's were:
N0YJ
KL7IXI 
K4EQ Double 
N4ELM Double 
WG5F 
K5TD (Almost) lost him on the return. 

Thanks everyone, stay cool and Safe! 
72 
Johnny AC0BQ


--
Charles Moizeau, W2SH


Delta Romeo Mike net

Robert
 

Good evening 

Tonight's check in's

WG5F ED
KU5M JOE
AC0BQ JOHNNY
N4ELM  BILL ALL 3  NETS GREAT JOB
N0TGR DICK
N0TU MIKE

THANKS AGAIN
73'S
BERT
N0YJ


40 and 80 Meter Net Report

Johnny AC0BQ
 

Ge Group 
Not a bad net for tough band conditions. 

Check in's were: 
40 Meters
KW4JS
K4EQ
N4ELM 
W2SH 

80 Meters was a little better, believe it not! 
Check in's were:
N0YJ
KL7IXI 
K4EQ Double 
N4ELM Double 
WG5F 
K5TD (Almost) lost him on the return. 

Thanks everyone, stay cool and Safe! 
72 
Johnny AC0BQ


Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets - Wed, 06/10/2020 #cal-notice

main@4SQRP.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets

When:
Wednesday, 10 June 2020
20:00 to 21:00
(GMT-05:00) America/Chicago

Where:
40 and 80 Meters

Organizer:
jomatlock@...

Description:
The 40 Meter Net will be at 8:00 pm central time  on 7.122 +-. QRM
NCS is WQ5RP/ACØBQ 

Wednesday evening 80 Meter CW Net. will be at  (8:30PM Central Time Wednesday). 



The 80 meter net will be called on 3.564 MHz +/- QRM.
Net control operator is Johnny ACØBQ 

* NEW *  Wednesday evening DMR Voice Net will be at (Thursday) 0300 UTC (9:00PM Central Time Wednesday/)
Four States QRP has a Brandmeister DMR Talk Group (TG31654). Join us to discuss QRP, ask questions, or just ragchew. The Wednesday net is a directed net  but any other time you may use the Talk Group to chat with other QRPers.
Net Control operator is Bert NØYJ.


Upcoming Event: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets - Wed, 06/10/2020 20:00-21:00 #cal-reminder

main@4SQRP.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets

When: Wednesday, 10 June 2020, 20:00 to 21:00, (GMT-05:00) America/Chicago

Where:40 and 80 Meters

View Event

Organizer: jomatlock@...

Description: The 40 Meter Net will be at 8:00 pm central time  on 7.122 +-. QRM
NCS is WQ5RP/ACØBQ 

Wednesday evening 80 Meter CW Net. will be at  (8:30PM Central Time Wednesday). 



The 80 meter net will be called on 3.564 MHz +/- QRM.
Net control operator is Johnny ACØBQ 

* NEW *  Wednesday evening DMR Voice Net will be at (Thursday) 0300 UTC (9:00PM Central Time Wednesday/)
Four States QRP has a Brandmeister DMR Talk Group (TG31654). Join us to discuss QRP, ask questions, or just ragchew. The Wednesday net is a directed net  but any other time you may use the Talk Group to chat with other QRPers.
Net Control operator is Bert NØYJ.


Upcoming Event: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets - Wed, 06/10/2020 20:00-21:00 #cal-reminder

main@4SQRP.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets

When: Wednesday, 10 June 2020, 20:00 to 21:00, (GMT-05:00) America/Chicago

Where:40 and 80 Meters

View Event

Organizer: jomatlock@...

Description: The 40 Meter Net will be at 8:00 pm central time  on 7.122 +-. QRM
NCS is WQ5RP/ACØBQ 

Wednesday evening 80 Meter CW Net. will be at  (8:30PM Central Time Wednesday). 



The 80 meter net will be called on 3.564 MHz +/- QRM.
Net control operator is Johnny ACØBQ 

* NEW *  Wednesday evening DMR Voice Net will be at (Thursday) 0300 UTC (9:00PM Central Time Wednesday/)
Four States QRP has a Brandmeister DMR Talk Group (TG31654). Join us to discuss QRP, ask questions, or just ragchew. The Wednesday net is a directed net  but any other time you may use the Talk Group to chat with other QRPers.
Net Control operator is Bert NØYJ.


W0RW@Ice Station Zebra, on 14061, 10 June, 1700Z

w0rw
 

Advanced  Notice...   W0RW ...

I will be operating from Ice Station Zebra, <http://tinyurl.com/zgss4yu>.

There is an inch of snow there now.

Date:    10 June, 2020.
Freq:   14061 kHz +/- 1.

Time:  1700z, (1pm EDT ).

 

I will be using my   PRC319 "Lite", 

It looks like a real PRC319 but It has a  '1 Watter'  inside,

 all sealed in a water tight, goat proof case.

 

 You can see the story of this rig in the

NAQCC June Newsletter newsletter article, p.8 :
http://www.naqcc.info/newsletter_current_lores.pdf


You can read more about Pedestrian Mobile operations in

CQ Magazine, Sept. 2018.

 

Paul w0rw

@ Ice Station Zebra, Colorado

 



Upcoming Event: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets - Wed, 06/10/2020 20:00-21:00 #cal-reminder

main@4SQRP.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder: Wednesday Evening 40 and 80 meter Nets

When: Wednesday, 10 June 2020, 20:00 to 21:00, (GMT-05:00) America/Chicago

Where:40 and 80 Meters

View Event

Organizer: jomatlock@...

Description: The 40 Meter Net will be at 8:00 pm central time  on 7.122 +-. QRM
NCS is WQ5RP/ACØBQ 

Wednesday evening 80 Meter CW Net. will be at  (8:30PM Central Time Wednesday). 



The 80 meter net will be called on 3.564 MHz +/- QRM.
Net control operator is Johnny ACØBQ 

* NEW *  Wednesday evening DMR Voice Net will be at (Thursday) 0300 UTC (9:00PM Central Time Wednesday/)
Four States QRP has a Brandmeister DMR Talk Group (TG31654). Join us to discuss QRP, ask questions, or just ragchew. The Wednesday net is a directed net  but any other time you may use the Talk Group to chat with other QRPers.
Net Control operator is Bert NØYJ.


Re: Question About The 4 States Antenna Tuner

Dave W0DCX
 

Well well well.  This has been pretty interesting, somewhat humiliating, and rather humorous.  I followed Jim's directive and, at least with the dummy load in place, the Tuner at last seems to be behaving as one might expect. So maybe I did assemble it correctly!  Who would have thought!  In the final step, as per Jim's advice, I replaced my NanoVNA with my transceiver set on 40-meters at 1 watt and obtained the same LED pattern on the Tuner.  Interestingly, when I switched to 20-meters at first it seemed not to work well.  But I was assuming there was an incremental pattern of tuning to be expected when adjusting the inductor.  I had previously assumed that I could "bracket" the inductor settings to more quickly figure out the best tuning, but I guess not.  I think one has to try each and every inductor setting more methodically.  Lo and behold I found that 20-meters gave me the green light when I had the inductor at the B position, Cap-L at 10 and Cap-R at 0.  B is the next to highest setting of A which worked well for 40-meters.  Lesson learned is that I need to be completely empirical when trying to adjust the tuner for the best match and not assume any patterns will emerge.  But the big question now is how will this all work with an actual antenna instead of a dummy load?  I was flummoxed when I first tried it on my AX1 vertical whip, but maybe now that I understand the tuning process better I can get it to work with that and other antennas too.
Thanks!
Dave W0DCX


Re: Question About The 4 States Antenna Tuner

Dave W0DCX
 

The new attached MS Word file contains updated finalized chart including SWR analysis.  Thanks for everyone's input!  I have yet to follow up by switching to to my transmitter after finding a good SWR match with the NanoVNA.  Will do that next and report back.

Oh, I also ran the NanoVNA on 20-meters.  Similar pattern but the best SWRs were not quite as good as soon on 40-meters.  Data not shown in chart.

Dave W0DCX


Re: Question About The 4 States Antenna Tuner

Jim, N5IB
 

BTW ... of interest to many... There is a simulator of the T network tuner at:
http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/tuner/tuner.html

It's a great way to practice adjusting the beast without smoking too many finals. Also has an optimized "autotune" function that can predict what your own tuner settings may need to be for a given load condition ( R +/- jX that the Nano VNA can tell you about). For example - it predicts that at 7 MHz the 50 ohm dummy load (50 + j0) should match with both caps at near maximum, and the inductor near minimum.

To run your computer does need to have JAVA installed, so it may not be everyone's cup of "tea"

Jim, N5IB


Re: Question About The 4 States Antenna Tuner

Jim, N5IB
 

Hi Dave,

I looks like something is working as it should... but the trouble with that test is you're still testing two things at once - the bridge part and the tuner part. You need to isolate the functions to home in on the problem.

Since you have a Nano VNA, set it at some fixed frequency, say 7050 kHz, and connect it to the tuner. Set the bridge to OUT, and connect the dummy load in place of the antenna. Adjust the L/Cs to attempt to find a 1:1 match as indicated on the Nano.

If you can make a match close to 1:1, then leave the L and C settings right where they are, disconnect the Nano and connect up your transmitter, set to the same frequency, still with the dummy load in place, but with the bridge now IN. When you key the transmitter it should see the match that you found, and the LEDs should confirm it - REV off or very dim, FWD on and bright. If that's not the case then something is amiss in the bridge part. It's possible you might need very slight adjustments to perfect the match, but only very slight.

Jim, N5IB


Re: Question About The 4 States Antenna Tuner

Dave W0DCX
 

I ran the dummy load test this morning.  Attached is a table in MS Word showing the results.  At least with the dummy load there is a semblance of functionality.  When I first tried the Tuner I had the Elecraft AX1 20-meter vertical whip antenna attached which I know has an SWR of about 1.3:1 but then I saw nothing but the RED LED illuminated which seemed wrong to me.  Totally different behavior with the dummy load attached.  I would be interested in your interpretations of this data.  Thanks.
Dave W0DCX


Re: Question About The 4 States Antenna Tuner

Jim, N5IB
 

Dave (NM0S..... get ready to chime in here... I'm going to risk violating Mark Twain's advice ("keep silent and be thought a fool, or speak and remove all doubt) ... and try to explain the workings of the 4 State Tuner's SWR bridge operation.

First, D2 steals, and rectifies, a bit of the RF drive which is filtered by C3 to provide a "positive supply voltage" that is connected via R4 (1 k) to the collector circuit of Q1 (NPN) and also the emitter circuit of Q2 (PNP) .

That positive supply voltage is also applied, via R6 (1 meg), to the base of PNP transistor Q2, thus biasing it OFF, and preventing, for the moment, the red REV LED from lighting.

But if the 47 ohm resistive bridge (R1, R2, R3) is unbalanced because an impedance other than 47 ohms resistive is presented through the tuner elements, then an RF voltage will be developed across the C4 - D1 combo. D1 is oriented so as to rectify the RF and develop a negative DC voltage across C4, which acts as the filter capacitor.

That negative voltage is applied via R5 (150 k) to the base of Q2, counteracting the positive bias voltage applied through R6. If the bridge unbalance is large enough, the negative bias will overcome the positive, and Q2 will begin to conduct, causing the red REV LED to illuminate. D3 serves to produce a "dead band" so that the REV LED can be seen to extinguish clearly when a match is accomplished.

The greater the load mismatch, thus the greater the bridge unbalance, the greater will be the negative bias applied to Q2 and the brighter will be the REV LED.

While all this is going on the base of Q1 (NPN) is looking at the collector of Q2. As Q2 is driven to conduct, its collector voltage decreases towards ground, turning OFF Q1 and dimming (or even extinguishing) the green FWD LED.

When a matched condition is achieved and the bridge is balanced, there is no negative bias on Q2, and it is turned OFF. Q2's collector voltage then rises in the positive direction, which forward biases Q1, turn it ON and lighting the green FWD LED.

OK Dave .... did that "remove all doubt" LOL

Jim, N5IB


Re: Question About The 4 States Antenna Tuner

Dave W0DCX
 

Thank you all for those great suggestions.  I feel like my electronics IQ rose a few points just by reading your posts.  I do have a dummy load and I recently acquired a NanoVNA so I will follow all of your suggestions and see what I can come up with.
Dave W0DCX


Re: Question About The 4 States Antenna Tuner

Jim, N5IB
 

Hi Dave,

First thing to do is determine if the problem is with the SWR bridge part or the tuner part. Unfortunately with this circuit you can' t test the just the bridge into a dummy load without having the tuner in-line.

Do you have an antenna analyzer or a separate SWR meter that will work at QRP power levels? If so, connect a dummy load to the ANT jack and switch the bridge OUT. Excite the tuner with your analyzer or with a QRP transmitter through your other SWR meter and see if you can tune for a match. If so, the Ls and Cs of the tuner part are OK and the problem is almost certainly with the bridge part. You could even do this with the antenna connected if you don't have a suitable dummy load.

NM0S used some cleverness in devising the bridge indicator, and I don't profess to understand it fully :^)) but that's not a new thing. It almost seems like yours is working "backwards" with the red LED showing forward power.

As someone else commented, if the LEDs light at all it's pretty sure they are installed correctly. But check that the other diodes (D1 and D2 in particular) are oriented correctly. And also double check that Q1 and Q2 didn't get swapped. Q1 should be a 2N3904 (NPN), while Q2 is a 2N3906 (PNP).

Also double check R5 and R6 ... easy to miss the color codes if the light is poor... R5 is 150 K (brown-green-yellow) while R6 is 1.5 Meg (brown-green-green) .

Keep us posted what you discover.

Jim, N5IB


Re: Congrats to K0NEB

Johnny AC0BQ
 

Thanks for the heads up Walter.

CONGRATS JOE!
Well deserved!
72, 73
Johnny ACØBQ 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 12:09 AM Walter - K5EST <walter.k5est@...> wrote:
Joe - K0NEB is a 4SQRP member and a well known kit editor for CQ magazine. 


73,

Walter Dufrain - K5EST - QRPcw
https://www.qrz.com/db/k5est
   

--
Check out the 4SQRP website at 4sqrp.com