0.016" traces are quite reasonable.

We used to make PC boards designed with Tape and Light tables in the mid 1970s

and the traces were often as narrow as 0.010" or 0.015" although 0.020" was preferable as a minimum.

THAT being said, I would not want to try to solder to traces that small and that close together., Very challenging!� What kind of IRON and TIP did you use?

Thanks - Bry AF4K

---

From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of David Martin davemrtn@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 3:15 PM
To: 4sqrp@...; n5ib@...
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS [1 Attachment]

�

�

Jim,

��� You mentioned minimum trace width.

��� Playing around making a smt board for an oscilator I made this board with 0.016" (16mil) traces, and fortunately the even narrower spaces between (near the chips) did etch out ok.

The worst thing was dealing with solder bridges, so use of solder wick was required from time to time.

David Martin - NA1MH - Mountain Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------

On 2/22/2017 12:57, n5ib@... [4sqrp] wrote:

�

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited� toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.� The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.� But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know�� :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

Jim,

    You mentioned minimum trace width.

    Playing around making a smt board for an oscilator I made this board with 0.016" (16mil) traces, and fortunately the even narrower spaces between (near the chips) did etch out ok.

The worst thing was dealing with solder bridges, so use of solder wick was required from time to time.

David Martin - NA1MH - Mountain Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------

On 2/22/2017 12:57, n5ib@... [4sqrp] wrote:

 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

Jim,

    You mentioned minimum trace width.

    Playing around making a smt board for an oscilator I made this board with 0.016" (16mil) traces, and fortunately the even narrower spaces between (near the chips) did etch out ok.

The worst thing was dealing with solder bridges, so use of solder wick was required from time to time.

David Martin - NA1MH - Mountain Home, Ar. -----------------------------------------

On 2/22/2017 12:57, n5ib@... [4sqrp] wrote:

 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

I've tried out Chucks's suggested paper, and a couple of other re-purposed alternatives. they certainly work, but it took a while to soak off, and I always had trouble cleaning off the paper residue that remains stuck. For a while even I tried working with the "Press'N Peel Blue" plastic transfer film (more costly, but at the time it was on the boss's nickel). But I was convinced on the spot the first time I used the Pulsar paper stuff and saw it just float off the board in about a minute, leaving nothing but toner and clean copper behind - ready to pop directly into the etch bath.

The raw deposited  toner has some porosity and pitting can be seen under magnification. Not nearly enough to be damaging unless traces are really thin. Recently I've started using the"Toner Reactive Foil" product as well and find a much cleaner surface to the un-etched copper and ability to get consistent traces down under 10 mils.  The foil pretty much eliminates the pitting.

Now, for DIY, I just about never use traces smaller than 15 mils, but some of the text legends and such that I'll etch for ID will have lines of 6 or 8 mils, and they usually come out clean.

If you were going to do a "mini mass production" of maybe a few dozen boards (I did that once for a club kit - never again, the drilling was a drudge - hi), a more economical alternative paper is not a bad idea.  But nowadays my DIY boards are just about always one-off, Then if it turns out to be a useful project that others might have interest in, off it goes to a fab house. Nick and I will talk about the "gotchas" for that process. There aren't many, but they are important..... ask me how I know   :^))

If you like Pittsburg style, or SMT, where drilling can be mostly avoided, the DIY route is really attractive, even for modest quantities.

Jim, N5IB

 

Thanks - sounds great. Where do you find the commercially sold transfer paper? Does it have a particular brand / name or description?

I wish I could be there but will try these techniques.

Bry AF4K

---

From: 4sqrp@... <4sqrp@...> on behalf of n5ib@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:17 AM
To: 4sqrp@...
Subject: [4sqrp] Re: MAKING YOUR OWN PC BOARDS

 

 

Chuck has a nice video series on You Tube

the first part is at  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6AmT1trO60

printed circuit board tutorial: part 01 www.youtube.com Introduction showing some circuit construction using different techniques using printed circuit boards.

The presentation Nick and I will give at OzarkCon is about pretty much the same process. We just use the commercially sold transfer paper instead. I've found it is a bit faster and gave more consistent results and really isn't that costly. A $15 pack is enough to do several dozens of boards. I've been working on the same pack for three years now.

We'll also be talking about how to take the next step to using commercial board fab services. These are getting very reasonable now days. And since you generally get several boards at a time, its a great way to share projects.

Doug is right, if you latch on to some bargains, especially for the laminator and printer (or maybe you have the printer already) the rest of the stuff is little more than the cost of a pizza delivery. And you literally can go from a (simple) circuit idea to a finished board in an hour. Guys even profess success with a common household iron, but I've not been so lucky  :^))  

Jim, N5IB

---In 4sqrp@..., wrote :

This sounds great! Thanks for the shopping list.

Can you tell us where to find a description by Chuck of how to make the boards?

I would love to start using his method!

Bry, AF4K / WN4NRR