Topics

Attic?


Michael McEwen
 

Excellent info...TNX

73, Doc K5OSA 


On Thu, May 14, 2020, 05:36 John <ve3ips@...> wrote:
My office shack hAs a doublet in the shack, fed with a balun and I can make contacts 1000 miles away no problem with 20 watts

I have an LDG tuner in place of the Yaesu pruner on a FT991a radio

I worked Denver from Toronto on 20m cw

These antennas work where a wooden truss with asphalt shingles is the roof on a 2 story home

John VE3IPS
--
Sent with a Palm Pilot. Ve3ips.wordpress.com
Radio: it's not just a hobby, it's a way of life
All content is personal and confidential


John
 

My office shack hAs a doublet in the shack, fed with a balun and I can make contacts 1000 miles away no problem with 20 watts

I have an LDG tuner in place of the Yaesu pruner on a FT991a radio

I worked Denver from Toronto on 20m cw

These antennas work where a wooden truss with asphalt shingles is the roof on a 2 story home

John VE3IPS
--
Sent with a Palm Pilot. Ve3ips.wordpress.com
Radio: it's not just a hobby, it's a way of life
All content is personal and confidential


WB9YZU
 

I feel your pain, when I became a Ham, my Dad had 1 steadfast rule: No Outdoor Antennas!

Attic antennas work in conventional construction houses with no metal roof.
On 80/40 you don't see all that much loss, and in a 1 story ranch style, they are more than high enough.

My Uncles antennas were all inside the attic, the 40M dipole and the 220 discone. House was wood construction with standard asbestos shingles.
I had a resonant 40M wire dipole in my parents 30' ranch style, and ran a 1 tube home brew CW Xmiter that was rock bound.

The fun thing about wire dipoles in the attic are that you don't have to worry about the WX.
And if you want, instead of burying a wire for a low noise RX antenna, you can use the basement rafters to support a wire antenna there also.

When I moved out and did apartment living, I got a 5 band vertical that I would put on a 5ft section of RS antenna mast. I would pound in all but 1.5 ft and clamp the vertical to it.
Very inconspicuous. Moving antenna involved an old bumper jack and some rope.
--
, Ron WB9YZU


Michael McEwen
 

Suggestions for G5RV designs?

73 Doc K5OSA 

On Tue, May 12, 2020, 14:53 Michael McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:
Great idea.  I'll put the GR5 option on the "to try" list.

73 Doc K5OSA 

On Tue, May 12, 2020, 08:35 Wayne Dillon <wayne.dillon@...> wrote:
Worked 2 of my 1000 mile/watt awards with an attic mounted 1/2 size G5RV (mounted at the ridge) with normal shingles. It actually proved better on 40 than an outdoors 134'6" wahr/9:1 unun. Mu current location has a metal roof so I'm going the "ground mounted vertical" route (as soon as the rain stops!)
Be blessed all,
Wayne - NQ0RP

--
 
QRP -  EFFICIENCY AND SKILL, NOT POWER. 
 
God Bless from Wayne Dillon - NQ0RP

Fate whispered to courageous "You cannot withstand the storm"
Courageous  whispered back "I am the storm"


Michael McEwen
 

Great idea.  I'll put the GR5 option on the "to try" list.

73 Doc K5OSA 

On Tue, May 12, 2020, 08:35 Wayne Dillon <wayne.dillon@...> wrote:
Worked 2 of my 1000 mile/watt awards with an attic mounted 1/2 size G5RV (mounted at the ridge) with normal shingles. It actually proved better on 40 than an outdoors 134'6" wahr/9:1 unun. Mu current location has a metal roof so I'm going the "ground mounted vertical" route (as soon as the rain stops!)
Be blessed all,
Wayne - NQ0RP

--
 
QRP -  EFFICIENCY AND SKILL, NOT POWER. 
 
God Bless from Wayne Dillon - NQ0RP

Fate whispered to courageous "You cannot withstand the storm"
Courageous  whispered back "I am the storm"


Michael McEwen
 

TNX!!!! Doc K5OSA 


On Mon, May 11, 2020, 18:54 Thomas Martin <tem494@...> wrote:
Doc
I used an end fed with balun while living in Manvel Tx I worked all over Europe England Africa Centeral American and South America 
If your roof has the heat reflecting foil it doesn’t work well but regular construction works great.

Tom
K0amd
On Monday, May 11, 2020, Michael McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:
There is no metal above the attic of our conventional construction home. The roof is shingle over frame.   What's the effect if I put a ENDFEDZ  10.20.40 up there?  Covenants don't allow obvious outdoor types.

72, Doc K5OSA 


david gauding
 

I never had much luck with end-feds in the attic. I was a new ham at that time and did not fully understand how to ground the antenna effectively from up there.

However, I did install a tuned doublet in the attic and used it for over ten years with good results. Achieved WAS, WAC and 130 DXCC countries on CW. All of this was done on QRP.

I operated from a two-story townhouse condo in two different locations. Used a 33' radiator across the diagonal and added 16.5' on the ends to get 10-40M coverage. Later added slinkys to the ends to increase coverage to 10-80M. From overhead the basic antenna looked like the letter "Z".

Using borrowed rigs I could operate 160M feeding the complete antenna against ground. I found that quite amazing at the time.

The feedline was usually 300 ohm line. I snaked it from the attic to the basement shack using space along side a forced air duct.

Before trying the attic antenna I tuned a rain gutter & downspout assembly that covered 10-80M. I always recommend trying that first to get on the air quickly. My best results were usually on 40M and 80M followed by 20M.

Dave Gauding, NF0R



Mike Sanders
 

Amen. We are finding out from WSPR and other digital modes about
propagation we never knew before.
Using WSPR at mw levels can tell us volumes about our antennas, station
equipment and prop in almost an
instant. Good post. Thanks es 73, Mike K0AZ

On 5/11/2020 9:50 PM, John - KK4ITX via groups.io wrote:
Doc,

Opinions and suggestions are great but I have found that trying is
best.... because each location is different for way too many reasons
to cover here.  You may find that a Dipole works better ?

Build the endfed, should be less than $10 at QRP levels.  See how it
works. If it doesn’t work out you already have the coax run to try
something else.  I have many failures in my shed and it’s part of the
hobby.

I use a 35ft EF and cover the U.S., Canada and more at both *QRP* and
*WSPR* levels, from Florida.

To see how my antenna is performing I use *WSPR*....... yes it is a
Digital Mode but what it tells me is that my 5w CW should be heard
wherever WSPR reports hearing me at just a 200mw signal.  A 200mw
signal is equal to about 4w CW.  The comparison between my Vertical
and the EF is quite clear........ sometimes better or not, I use
*WSPR* to help me to determine which antenna to use.

Using WSPR will tell you more about your system than just about
anything else because it’s a real time result, not theory..... doesn’t
depend on perfect CW for the RBN to decode.

We are fortunate to now have tools (FREE) at our disposal that can
give us real time answers to which antenna is best......... at this
minute !

72,

John
KK4ITX

/*Visit: *www.zaarc.org <http://www.zaarc.org>.   👁/

On May 11, 2020, at 20:42, w2sh@... <mailto:w2sh@...> wrote:

Another suggestion is to view the June 1949 QST with several indoor
antenna designs.

72,

Charles, W2SH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* main@4SQRP.groups.io <mailto:main@4SQRP.groups.io>
<main@4SQRP.groups.io <mailto:main@4SQRP.groups.io>> on behalf of
John Nicholas <stnick@... <mailto:stnick@...>>
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 20:25
*To:* main@4sqrp.groups.io <mailto:main@4sqrp.groups.io>
<main@4SQRP.groups.io <mailto:main@4SQRP.groups.io>>
*Subject:* Re: [4SQRP] Attic?
My Elmer,  has the same problem.  He has lived 25 years in this home.
 Multiple antennas in his attic.  He does just fine.  The biggest
thing is they are closer to the ground.  You should check the
October, 2007 issue of QST. Article on a 48' end fed in the attic
with a J-Pole.  There would be many variations on this one.

FYI:   If the metal foil is on the rafters or part of the roof
sheathing, it will cause problems.  It is  a radiant barrier.  South
of 34* N in CONUS they have some value for efficiency.  If it is just
stretched out across the ceiling joists and insulation,  you can
remove it.  That installation is just expensive snake oil.  My day
job is a Home Energy Auditor.

73 KE0ZUW  John

On May 11, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Michael McEwen
<michael.t.mcewen@... <mailto:michael.t.mcewen@...>> wrote:

There is no metal above the attic of our conventional construction
home. The roof is shingle over frame.   What's the effect if I put a
ENDFEDZ  10.20.40 up there?  Covenants don't allow obvious outdoor
types.

72, Doc K5OSA

--
Charles Moizeau, W2SH

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


Wayne Dillon
 

Worked 2 of my 1000 mile/watt awards with an attic mounted 1/2 size G5RV (mounted at the ridge) with normal shingles. It actually proved better on 40 than an outdoors 134'6" wahr/9:1 unun. Mu current location has a metal roof so I'm going the "ground mounted vertical" route (as soon as the rain stops!)
Be blessed all,
Wayne - NQ0RP

--
 
QRP -  EFFICIENCY AND SKILL, NOT POWER. 
 
God Bless from Wayne Dillon - NQ0RP

Fate whispered to courageous "You cannot withstand the storm"
Courageous  whispered back "I am the storm"


John - KK4ITX
 

Doc,

Opinions and suggestions are great but I have found that trying is best.... because each location is different for way too many reasons to cover here.  You may find that a Dipole works better ?

Build the endfed, should be less than $10 at QRP levels.  See how it works. If it doesn’t work out you already have the coax run to try something else.  I have many failures in my shed and it’s part of the hobby.

I use a 35ft EF and cover the U.S., Canada and more at both QRP and WSPR levels, from Florida.

To see how my antenna is performing I use WSPR....... yes it is a Digital Mode but what it tells me is that my 5w CW should be heard wherever WSPR reports hearing me at just a 200mw signal.  A 200mw signal is equal to about 4w CW.  The comparison between my Vertical and the EF is quite clear........ sometimes better or not, I use WSPR to help me to determine which antenna to use.

Using WSPR will tell you more about your system than just about anything else because it’s a real time result, not theory..... doesn’t depend on perfect CW for the RBN to decode.  

We are fortunate to now have tools (FREE) at our disposal that can give us real time answers to which antenna is best......... at this minute !

72,

John
KK4ITX 

Visit:  www.zaarc.org.   👁

On May 11, 2020, at 20:42, w2sh@... wrote:

Another suggestion is to view the June 1949 QST with several indoor antenna designs.

72,

Charles, W2SH

From: main@4SQRP.groups.io <main@4SQRP.groups.io> on behalf of John Nicholas <stnick@...>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 20:25
To: main@4sqrp.groups.io <main@4SQRP.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [4SQRP] Attic?
 
My Elmer,  has the same problem.  He has lived 25 years in this home.  Multiple antennas in his attic.  He does just fine.  The biggest thing is they are closer to the ground.  You should check the October, 2007 issue of QST. Article on a 48' end fed in the attic with a J-Pole.  There would be many variations on this one.

FYI:   If the metal foil is on the rafters or part of the roof sheathing, it will cause problems.  It is  a radiant barrier.  South of 34* N in CONUS they have some value for efficiency.  If it is just stretched out across the ceiling joists and insulation,  you can remove it.  That installation is just expensive snake oil.  My day job is a Home Energy Auditor.

73 KE0ZUW  John

On May 11, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Michael McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:

There is no metal above the attic of our conventional construction home. The roof is shingle over frame.   What's the effect if I put a ENDFEDZ  10.20.40 up there?  Covenants don't allow obvious outdoor types.

72, Doc K5OSA 


--
Charles Moizeau, W2SH


w2sh@...
 

Another suggestion is to view the June 1949 QST with several indoor antenna designs.

72,

Charles, W2SH


From: main@4SQRP.groups.io <main@4SQRP.groups.io> on behalf of John Nicholas <stnick@...>
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 20:25
To: main@4sqrp.groups.io <main@4SQRP.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [4SQRP] Attic?
 
My Elmer,  has the same problem.  He has lived 25 years in this home.  Multiple antennas in his attic.  He does just fine.  The biggest thing is they are closer to the ground.  You should check the October, 2007 issue of QST. Article on a 48' end fed in the attic with a J-Pole.  There would be many variations on this one.

FYI:   If the metal foil is on the rafters or part of the roof sheathing, it will cause problems.  It is  a radiant barrier.  South of 34* N in CONUS they have some value for efficiency.  If it is just stretched out across the ceiling joists and insulation,  you can remove it.  That installation is just expensive snake oil.  My day job is a Home Energy Auditor.

73 KE0ZUW  John

On May 11, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Michael McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:

There is no metal above the attic of our conventional construction home. The roof is shingle over frame.   What's the effect if I put a ENDFEDZ  10.20.40 up there?  Covenants don't allow obvious outdoor types.

72, Doc K5OSA 


--
Charles Moizeau, W2SH


John Nicholas
 

My Elmer,  has the same problem.  He has lived 25 years in this home.  Multiple antennas in his attic.  He does just fine.  The biggest thing is they are closer to the ground.  You should check the October, 2007 issue of QST. Article on a 48' end fed in the attic with a J-Pole.  There would be many variations on this one.

FYI:   If the metal foil is on the rafters or part of the roof sheathing, it will cause problems.  It is  a radiant barrier.  South of 34* N in CONUS they have some value for efficiency.  If it is just stretched out across the ceiling joists and insulation,  you can remove it.  That installation is just expensive snake oil.  My day job is a Home Energy Auditor.

73 KE0ZUW  John

On May 11, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Michael McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:

There is no metal above the attic of our conventional construction home. The roof is shingle over frame.   What's the effect if I put a ENDFEDZ  10.20.40 up there?  Covenants don't allow obvious outdoor types.

72, Doc K5OSA 


Thomas Martin
 

Doc
I used an end fed with balun while living in Manvel Tx I worked all over Europe England Africa Centeral American and South America 
If your roof has the heat reflecting foil it doesn’t work well but regular construction works great.

Tom
K0amd

On Monday, May 11, 2020, Michael McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:
There is no metal above the attic of our conventional construction home. The roof is shingle over frame.   What's the effect if I put a ENDFEDZ  10.20.40 up there?  Covenants don't allow obvious outdoor types.

72, Doc K5OSA 


Michael McEwen
 

There is no metal above the attic of our conventional construction home. The roof is shingle over frame.   What's the effect if I put a ENDFEDZ  10.20.40 up there?  Covenants don't allow obvious outdoor types.

72, Doc K5OSA