Ice Storm in Michigan - generators


Bill Cromwell
 

Hi,

My experience with "emergency" or "alternate" power sources fits right in. Use it or lose it. I went shares with a brother-in-law on a nice generator unit and he kept it at his home - where it was much more likely to be needed. HOA, urban environment, all of that helpless stuff. It sat in the corner of his garage untouched for about two years. All of you know what happened when he actually needed it. Well his basement flooded. Them city folk don't know any better than to build houses down in a hole where a pump is required to keep it from flooding. In the same power outage at my home all the rain ran down the hill *away* from the house.

I plan to build up a natural gas powered generator and supply the whole village when the power goes out. Oh wait - it ain't April yet. The electric utilities (no names but "Consumer's Energy") here used to repair power outages in minutes to a few hours. The past decade or so they seem to think it's okay to leave us without water and heat for days and weeks. Please 'scuse my bad attitude toward them. The water I need to pump is from my well - NOT from my basement. This house ain't built down in a hole, either.

If you have them - use them.

73,

Bill KU8H


Wendell Morrill
 

Question - Do natural gas lines ever shut down? Are they pressurized with
air, and if so, how reliable are the pumps?
Wendell

Hi,

My experience with "emergency" or "alternate" power sources fits right
in. Use it or lose it. I went shares with a brother-in-law on a nice
generator unit and he kept it at his home - where it was much more
likely to be needed. HOA, urban environment, all of that helpless stuff.
It sat in the corner of his garage untouched for about two years. All of
you know what happened when he actually needed it. Well his basement
flooded. Them city folk don't know any better than to build houses down
in a hole where a pump is required to keep it from flooding. In the same
power outage at my home all the rain ran down the hill *away* from the
house.

I plan to build up a natural gas powered generator and supply the whole
village when the power goes out. Oh wait - it ain't April yet. The
electric utilities (no names but "Consumer's Energy") here used to
repair power outages in minutes to a few hours. The past decade or so
they seem to think it's okay to leave us without water and heat for days
and weeks. Please 'scuse my bad attitude toward them. The water I need
to pump is from my well - NOT from my basement. This house ain't built
down in a hole, either.

If you have them - use them.

73,

Bill KU8H


cbayona <CBayona@...>
 

Natural gas uses compressors to maintain the line pressure, those compressors require electricity to pump but they have backup systems in case electrical power fails.

You would never ever want air inside the gas lines, air contains oxygen, the gas is flammable, putting air in a line full of combustible material is turning the pipe into a bomb waiting for the slightest spark or open flame to go off.

At 04:20 PM 12/30/2013, you wrote:
Question - Do natural gas lines ever shut down? Are they pressurized with
air, and if so, how reliable are the pumps?
Wendell


Hi,

My experience with "emergency" or "alternate" power sources fits right
in. Use it or lose it. I went shares with a brother-in-law on a nice
generator unit and he kept it at his home - where it was much more
likely to be needed. HOA, urban environment, all of that helpless stuff.
It sat in the corner of his garage untouched for about two years. All of
you know what happened when he actually needed it. Well his basement
flooded. Them city folk don't know any better than to build houses down
in a hole where a pump is required to keep it from flooding. In the same
power outage at my home all the rain ran down the hill *away* from the
house.

I plan to build up a natural gas powered generator and supply the whole
village when the power goes out. Oh wait - it ain't April yet. The
electric utilities (no names but "Consumer's Energy") here used to
repair power outages in minutes to a few hours. The past decade or so
they seem to think it's okay to leave us without water and heat for days
and weeks. Please 'scuse my bad attitude toward them. The water I need
to pump is from my well - NOT from my basement. This house ain't built
down in a hole, either.

If you have them - use them.

73,

Bill KU8H
--
Cecil - k5nwa
< http://thepartsplace.k5nwa.com/ > < http://www.softrockradio.org/ >

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.


Shawn Reed <neivahul@...>
 

On 12/30/2013 2:20 PM, wmorrill@... wrote:
 

Question - Do natural gas lines ever shut down? Are they pressurized with
air, and if so, how reliable are the pumps?
Wendell

>Natural gas is piped under pressure. High and intermediate, (IP-60psi ?) and regulated at the house, low pressure, down to something less than 2 psi. If a pipeline were to suffer a leak, or break, it would be shut down for the repair to be made. Back  a bit, in years, natural gas was pumped into the ground, to fill the void left from extracting any oil --in Montana. In a manner, storing it. Nature may be the original "pressurizer", tho, I imagine relay stations are utilized. When out in the country, propane is delivered, under pressure, in any amount you can afford.  Then, a finer grade is used for minature camp stoves. This, to offset that, and then something else, but I forgot what it was! I know there is some volumn involved, --a bit like voltage. But then again, I may have forgotten some important facts, and I may have it all wrong. 73, Shawnr kf7yff



Wendell Morrill
 

I was thinking about long term emergency situations. I assumed that
natural gas via pipelines would be reliable, but if the pipes must be
pressurized for the system to work, perhaps the pumps that supply the
pressure might be inoperative.

On 12/30/2013 2:20 PM, wmorrill@montana.edu wrote:

Question - Do natural gas lines ever shut down? Are they pressurized
with
air, and if so, how reliable are the pumps?
Wendell

Natural gas is piped under pressure. High and intermediate, (IP-60psi
?) and regulated at the house, low pressure, down to something less
than 2 psi. If a pipeline were to suffer a leak, or break, it would be
shut down for the repair to be made. Back a bit, in years, natural
gas was pumped into the ground, to fill the void left from extracting
any oil --in Montana. In a manner, storing it. Nature may be the
original "pressurizer", tho, I imagine relay stations are utilized.
When out in the country, propane is delivered, under pressure, in any
amount you can afford. Then, a finer grade is used for minature camp
stoves. This, to offset that, and then something else, but I forgot
what it was! I know there is some volumn involved, --a bit like
voltage. But then again, I may have forgotten some important facts,
and I may have it all wrong. 73, Shawnr kf7yff


Shawn Reed <neivahul@...>
 

On 12/30/2013 3:41 PM, wmorrill@... wrote:
 

I was thinking about long term emergency situations. I assumed that
natural gas via pipelines would be reliable, but if the pipes must be
pressurized for the system to work, perhaps the pumps that supply the
pressure might be inoperative.

> On 12/30/2013 2:20 PM, wmorrill@... wrote:
>>
>> Question - Do natural gas lines ever shut down? Are they pressurized
>> with
>> air, and if so, how reliable are the pumps?
>> Wendell
>>
>> >Natural gas is piped under pressure. High and intermediate, (IP-60psi
>> ?) and regulated at the house, low pressure, down to something less
>> than 2 psi. If a pipeline were to suffer a leak, or break, it would be
>> shut down for the repair to be made. Back a bit, in years, natural
>> gas was pumped into the ground, to fill the void left from extracting
>> any oil --in Montana. In a manner, storing it. Nature may be the
>> original "pressurizer", tho, I imagine relay stations are utilized.
>> When out in the country, propane is delivered, under pressure, in any
>> amount you can afford. Then, a finer grade is used for minature camp
>> stoves. This, to offset that, and then something else, but I forgot
>> what it was! I know there is some volumn involved, --a bit like
>> voltage. But then again, I may have forgotten some important facts,
>> and I may have it all wrong. 73, Shawnr kf7yff
>>
>>
>
>

It is sort of like being on the grid, or not. You are far better off not being on the grid.  Every thing has it's own fate. Shawnr kf7yff


John C. Demuth - K8CQA
 

We have at least one natural gas compression station near us.  It is located away from towns.  I believe the compressors may run on natural gas (taken from the line), but will have to check to make sure.  No gas, no need for back-up energy source!    


John - K8CQA


Bill Cromwell
 

On 12/30/2013 05:20 PM, wmorrill@montana.edu wrote:
Question - Do natural gas lines ever shut down? Are they pressurized with
air, and if so, how reliable are the pumps?
Wendell

Hi Wendell,

Every source of service of any kind is subject to failure. Natural gas is a heavy hitter here - in widespread use. I started paying attention to service outages, availability, and costs in the 50s. I have experienced exactly one natural gas delivery failure in all that time. It lasted almost 4 hours! It occurred because the construction company that installed the sanitary sewer damaged a gas main while doing their work. The service is very reliable. But everything is subject to change.

Natural gas is one of the two cheapest energy sources. It took me a long time to round up the information to price heating fuels in terms of BTUs per dollar. When I did natural gas cam out on top for pricing. Next is firewood. next is kerosene and "fuel oil" with propane coming in a bit higher. Way up at the top of the list - costing the most by far is electricity. And now just guess which one is the least reliable - electricity.

Natural gas isn't pressurized by air. We don't want air mixed in with the gas. With no air it cannot burn. We do NOT want it to burn in the pipeline! Burners for any fuel have to be mixed with air from the local atmosphere in the right ratios to burn efficiently. We can't do that very well if we have air in varying amounts already in it when it is delivered. The gas can be pressurized the same way as air. It's in the gas company's best interest to see that their plant is reliable and maintained and that is also in our best interest. It seems the electric utilities have lost their view of that concept.

This is getting really far off topic even though it relates in several ways to ham radio activity. I'll be happy to discuss it further but off list.

73,

Bill KU8H


Tim N9PUZ
 

On 12/30/2013 05:20 PM, wmorrill@... wrote:

> Question - Do natural gas lines ever shut down? Are they pressurized with
> air, and if so, how reliable are the pumps?
> Wendell


In general terms the natural gas supply is very reliable especially if your concern is electrical outages. The biggest postulated threat to the natural gas supply (from natural causes) is an earthquake that caused the line to rupture somewhere.

Tim N9PUZ