A simple 60 meter CW transmitter


Wayne Dillon
 

5 channels = 5 xtals?, maybe a push button to "scroll" through the channels with a simple LED indicator to report which channel it's set to?
Wayne - KC0PMH

--
http://www.qsl.net/kc0pmh/   Under construction but please visit anyway.
 
QRP -  EFFICIENCY AND SKILL, NOT POWER. 
 
I'm British by birth but American by CHOICE!

Jesus came to pay a debt He didn't owe because we owe a debt we cannot pay...

The Lord bless you and keep you
The Lord make His face shine upon you, and be gracious unto you
The Lord lift up his contenance upon you and give you peace.

God Bless from Wayne Dillon - KC0PMH

Joshua 24:14-15
2 Cor 5:17
1 Jn 2:17
 
Membership Chairman - 4SQRP Group
4SQRP #95
FISTS 17184
FPQRP #342 (Flying Pigs QRP Club)
NAQCC # 0759
QRP-ARCI #11505
SKCC #1155T
CW Ragchewers Anonymous #40
SOC #848
30MDG#1176
NEQRP #693
GORC #192
DMC (Digital Modes Club) # 06686


Rick Bennett
 

It seems to me that would be a great setup and very fitting for a "rock bound" application.  Even an old fashioned rotary switch would work and would be simple.  Maybe an "NS-60"...

de KC0PET, Rick




From: "Wayne Dillon wayne.dillon@... [4sqrp]" <4sqrp@...>
To: 4sqrp@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:53:55 PM
Subject: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter

 

5 channels = 5 xtals?, maybe a push button to "scroll" through the channels with a simple LED indicator to report which channel it's set to?
Wayne - KC0PMH

--
http://www.qsl.net/kc0pmh/   Under construction but please visit anyway.
 
QRP -  EFFICIENCY AND SKILL, NOT POWER. 
 
I'm British by birth but American by CHOICE!

Jesus came to pay a debt He didn't owe because we owe a debt we cannot pay...

The Lord bless you and keep you
The Lord make His face shine upon you, and be gracious unto you
The Lord lift up his contenance upon you and give you peace.

God Bless from Wayne Dillon - KC0PMH

Joshua 24:14-15
2 Cor 5:17
1 Jn 2:17
 
Membership Chairman - 4SQRP Group
4SQRP #95
FISTS 17184
FPQRP #342 (Flying Pigs QRP Club)
NAQCC # 0759
QRP-ARCI #11505
SKCC #1155T
CW Ragchewers Anonymous #40
SOC #848
30MDG#1176
NEQRP #693
GORC #192
DMC (Digital Modes Club) # 06686



WA0ITP
 

One thing to keep in mind is that the crystals will be special order, in qty 1000, and not cheap. 
72 WAØITP
I love this radio stuff.
www.wa0itp.com
wa0itp@...
On 6/14/2015 8:56 PM, Rick Bennett kc0pet@... [4sqrp] wrote:

It seems to me that would be a great setup and very fitting for a "rock bound" application.  Even an old fashioned rotary switch would work and would be simple.  Maybe an "NS-60"...

de KC0PET, Rick




From: "Wayne Dillon wayne.dillon@... [4sqrp]" <4sqrp@...>
To: 4sqrp@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:53:55 PM
Subject: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter

 
5 channels = 5 xtals?, maybe a push button to "scroll" through the channels with a simple LED indicator to report which channel it's set to?
Wayne - KC0PMH

--
http://www.qsl.net/kc0pmh/   Under construction but please visit anyway.
 
QRP -  EFFICIENCY AND SKILL, NOT POWER. 
 
I'm British by birth but American by CHOICE!

Jesus came to pay a debt He didn't owe because we owe a debt we cannot pay...

The Lord bless you and keep you
The Lord make His face shine upon you, and be gracious unto you
The Lord lift up his contenance upon you and give you peace.

God Bless from Wayne Dillon - KC0PMH

Joshua 24:14-15
2 Cor 5:17
1 Jn 2:17
 
Membership Chairman - 4SQRP Group
4SQRP #95
FISTS 17184
FPQRP #342 (Flying Pigs QRP Club)
NAQCC # 0759
QRP-ARCI #11505
SKCC #1155T
CW Ragchewers Anonymous #40
SOC #848
30MDG#1176
NEQRP #693
GORC #192
DMC (Digital Modes Club) # 06686

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5961 / Virus Database: 4360/10017 - Release Date: 06/14/15



David Donaldson
 

Try International Crystal.

 http://www.icmfg.com/hamradio.html

Last time I ordered individual crystals for my TS-130s they were not expensive.  I suspect they will provide you with good  pricing for your project.

Sounds like a fun project.

73
Dave
Wb7dru, Minneapolis  MN

Sent from my android device.


-----Original Message-----
From: "WA0ITP wa0itp@... [4sqrp]" <4sqrp@...>
To: 4sqrp@..., Rick Bennett <kc0pet@...>
Sent: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the crystals will be special order, in qty 1000, and not cheap. 

72 WAØITP
I love this radio stuff.
www.wa0itp.com
wa0itp@...
On 6/14/2015 8:56 PM, Rick Bennett kc0pet@... [4sqrp] wrote:
It seems to me that would be a great setup and very fitting for a "rock bound" application.  Even an old fashioned rotary switch would work and would be simple.  Maybe an "NS-60"...

de KC0PET, Rick




From: "Wayne Dillon wayne.dillon@... [4sqrp]" <4sqrp@...>
To: 4sqrp@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:53:55 PM
Subject: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter

 
5 channels = 5 xtals?, maybe a push button to "scroll" through the channels with a simple LED indicator to report which channel it's set to?
Wayne - KC0PMH

--
http://www.qsl.net/kc0pmh/   Under construction but please visit anyway.
 
QRP -  EFFICIENCY AND SKILL, NOT POWER. 
 
I'm British by birth but American by CHOICE!

Jesus came to pay a debt He didn't owe because we owe a debt we cannot pay...

The Lord bless you and keep you
The Lord make His face shine upon you, and be gracious unto you
The Lord lift up his contenance upon you and give you peace.

God Bless from Wayne Dillon - KC0PMH

Joshua 24:14-15
2 Cor 5:17
1 Jn 2:17
 
Membership Chairman - 4SQRP Group
4SQRP #95
FISTS 17184
FPQRP #342 (Flying Pigs QRP Club)
NAQCC # 0759
QRP-ARCI #11505
SKCC #1155T
CW Ragchewers Anonymous #40
SOC #848
30MDG#1176
NEQRP #693
GORC #192
DMC (Digital Modes Club) # 06686

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5961 / Virus Database: 4360/10017 - Release Date: 06/14/15



Nick-WA5BDU
 

Nine years ago (already??) I did this presentation on an SSB transmitter for 60 meters at OzarkCon:
 
 
That was before CW became legal on the band.  Of course a CW transmitter would be much simpler.  I like the idea of crystal simplicity, but in this case a DDS might be simpler.  Well, not simpler – but cheaper.  Unless some supplier starts supplying 60 meter crystals cheap, they might be a bit expensive.
 
I did use the idea of a push button to scroll through the channels.  That can eliminate the complexity of a display.  Just have an LED for each channel.
 
On the first day that CW became legal on the band, I put my K3 there and made a CW QSO.  I’ve made a couple since but actually I don’t get to that band often.  Maybe a simple CW TX mated with an equally simple receiver would start something.
 
72-
 
Nick, WA5BDU
 

Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:53 PM
Subject: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter
 
 

5 channels = 5 xtals?, maybe a push button to "scroll" through the channels with a simple LED indicator to report which channel it's set to?
Wayne - KC0PMH
 
--


Don Wilhelm <w3fpr@...>
 

The bulk of 5 crystals plus a rotary switch would be reason to consider a DDS controlled with a firmware IC, or RasberryPi or Ardrino.
The latter two options could also be used to do some digital modes as well as CW.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/14/2015 11:33 PM, WA0ITP wa0itp@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

One thing to keep in mind is that the crystals will be special order, in qty 1000, and not cheap. 

72 WAØITP
I love this radio stuff.
www.wa0itp.com
wa0itp@...
On 6/14/2015 8:56 PM, Rick Bennett kc0pet@... [4sqrp] wrote:
It seems to me that would be a great setup and very fitting for a "rock bound" application.  Even an old fashioned rotary switch would work and would be simple.  Maybe an "NS-60"...

de KC0PET, Rick




From: "Wayne Dillon wayne.dillon@... [4sqrp]" <4sqrp@...>
To: 4sqrp@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:53:55 PM
Subject: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter

 
5 channels = 5 xtals?, maybe a push button to "scroll" through the channels with a simple LED indicator to report which channel it's set to?
Wayne - KC0PMH

--


Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Nick,

If we want "simple" LEDs would be overly complex and expensive. A chicken-head knob can point at dymo label or sharpie numbers one through five on the front panel..assuming we actually use a front panel.

I have been avoiding the DDS type stuff to also avoid the transmitted crud that goes along with them.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 06/15/2015 07:53 AM, 'Nick Kennedy' nick-wa5bdu@suddenlink.net [4sqrp] wrote:

Nine years ago (already??) I did this presentation on an SSB transmitter for 60 meters at OzarkCon:
https://sites.google.com/site/kennnick/60meterssbtransmitter
That was before CW became legal on the band. Of course a CW transmitter would be much simpler. I like the idea of crystal simplicity, but in this case a DDS might be simpler. Well, not simpler – but cheaper. Unless some supplier starts supplying 60 meter crystals cheap, they might be a bit expensive.
I did use the idea of a push button to scroll through the channels. That can eliminate the complexity of a display. Just have an LED for each channel.
On the first day that CW became legal on the band, I put my K3 there and made a CW QSO. I’ve made a couple since but actually I don’t get to that band often. Maybe a simple CW TX mated with an equally simple receiver would start something.
72-
Nick, WA5BDU
*From:* mailto:4sqrp@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:53 PM
*To:* 4sqrp@yahoogroups.com <mailto:4sqrp@yahoogroups.com>
*Subject:* [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter

5 channels = 5 xtals?, maybe a push button to "scroll" through the channels with a simple LED indicator to report which channel it's set to?
Wayne - KC0PMH
--


Don Wilhelm <w3fpr@...>
 

Bill,

Following a DDS with a low pass filter will take care of most of the crud and the low pass filter on the PA will take care of the rest of it.
I have looked at the spectrum of the Elecraft KX1 and the output is clean even though the source is a DDS.

With the right firmware, I think the KX1 could easily be put on 60 meters, but that firmware is Elecraft proprietary.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2015 9:52 AM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

Hi Nick,

If we want "simple" LEDs would be overly complex and expensive. A
chicken-head knob can point at dymo label or sharpie numbers one through
five on the front panel..assuming we actually use a front panel.

I have been avoiding the DDS type stuff to also avoid the transmitted
crud that goes along with them.

73,

Bill KU8H



Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Don,

It's the close in phase noise that concerned me Some hams (and engineers) have shown that it doesn't get filtered out. Apparently you have to also filter out the desired signal to get the phase noise. Do you have information that refutes this? It's easy to find misinformation *everywhere* and maybe the best I have is wrong.

I would otherwise be happy to have something like that for my carrier generator and heterodyne channel oscillators. My notion of seven xtals (or available oscillator frequencies) is to allow for SSB *AND* CW in one transmitter. That is one heterodyne frequency per channel (5) and one each for either CW or SSB (2). Still five channels with a simple selector.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 06/15/2015 11:11 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Bill,

Following a DDS with a low pass filter will take care of most of the crud and the low pass filter on the PA will take care of the rest of it.
I have looked at the spectrum of the Elecraft KX1 and the output is clean even though the source is a DDS.

With the right firmware, I think the KX1 could easily be put on 60 meters, but that firmware is Elecraft proprietary.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2015 9:52 AM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@gmail.com [4sqrp] wrote:

Hi Nick,

If we want "simple" LEDs would be overly complex and expensive. A
chicken-head knob can point at dymo label or sharpie numbers one through
five on the front panel..assuming we actually use a front panel.

I have been avoiding the DDS type stuff to also avoid the transmitted
crud that goes along with them.

73,

Bill KU8H


John Lonigro
 

Maybe a transverter for 60M would be easier.  The originating frequency would be as pure as that of the source transceiver, only one crystal would be needed (I think), and it would allow the transceiver to receive as well.  Otherwise, we're talking about needing a "Magic Box" and a receiver capable of 60M, in addition to a 60M transmitter.

I personally would have trouble designing any part of a transmitter, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about (wouldn't be the first time).

72,
John AA0VE

On 06/15/2015 11:30 AM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

Hi Don,

It's the close in phase noise that concerned me Some hams (and
engineers) have shown that it doesn't get filtered out. Apparently you
have to also filter out the desired signal to get the phase noise. Do
you have information that refutes this? It's easy to find misinformation
*everywhere* and maybe the best I have is wrong.

I would otherwise be happy to have something like that for my carrier
generator and heterodyne channel oscillators. My notion of seven xtals
(or available oscillator frequencies) is to allow for SSB *AND* CW in
one transmitter. That is one heterodyne frequency per channel (5) and
one each for either CW or SSB (2). Still five channels with a simple
selector.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 06/15/2015 11:11 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Following a DDS with a low pass filter will take care of most of the
> crud and the low pass filter on the PA will take care of the rest of it.
> I have looked at the spectrum of the Elecraft KX1 and the output is
> clean even though the source is a DDS.
>
> With the right firmware, I think the KX1 could easily be put on 60
> meters, but that firmware is Elecraft proprietary.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/15/2015 9:52 AM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nick,
>>
>> If we want "simple" LEDs would be overly complex and expensive. A
>> chicken-head knob can point at dymo label or sharpie numbers one through
>> five on the front panel..assuming we actually use a front panel.
>>
>> I have been avoiding the DDS type stuff to also avoid the transmitted
>> crud that goes along with them.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Bill KU8H
>>
>



Don Wilhelm <w3fpr@...>
 

Bill,

No I don't have information to refute the phase noise situation.  My thoughts are that at QRP levels, the problem is not as severe and may be able to be ignored.  At higher power levels, it is definitely a problem on the bands.
What I do know is that all DDS units are not the same, some are worse for phase noise than others.

IMHO, if the design point is for small, QRP and portable, the DDS solution is viable, or something like the SI570.  The nice part about that approach is that the generator can be easily offset for CW receive so it can be used not only as the transmit VFO, but also changed to be the LO source for a superhet receiver.  It is a small matter of programming.  It also makes multiband capability possible in a smaller package.  How about an 80, 60 (channelized), and 40 meter SSB and CW transceiver the size of an Elecraft K1.

Once one accepts the fact that properly designed firmware can be used, the possibilities of a small display (like the 3 digit LED display on the Elecraft KX1) is not only possible, but can add a lot of function to a small package.
OTOH, that may be too ambitious for a 4SQRP kit if the programming skills are not available to make that happen.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2015 12:30 PM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

Hi Don,

It's the close in phase noise that concerned me Some hams (and
engineers) have shown that it doesn't get filtered out. Apparently you
have to also filter out the desired signal to get the phase noise. Do
you have information that refutes this? It's easy to find misinformation
*everywhere* and maybe the best I have is wrong.

I would otherwise be happy to have something like that for my carrier
generator and heterodyne channel oscillators. My notion of seven xtals
(or available oscillator frequencies) is to allow for SSB *AND* CW in
one transmitter. That is one heterodyne frequency per channel (5) and
one each for either CW or SSB (2). Still five channels with a simple
selector.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 06/15/2015 11:11 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Following a DDS with a low pass filter will take care of most of the
> crud and the low pass filter on the PA will take care of the rest of it.
> I have looked at the spectrum of the Elecraft KX1 and the output is
> clean even though the source is a DDS.
>
> With the right firmware, I think the KX1 could easily be put on 60
> meters, but that firmware is Elecraft proprietary.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/15/2015 9:52 AM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nick,
>>
>> If we want "simple" LEDs would be overly complex and expensive. A
>> chicken-head knob can point at dymo label or sharpie numbers one through
>> five on the front panel..assuming we actually use a front panel.
>>
>> I have been avoiding the DDS type stuff to also avoid the transmitted
>> crud that goes along with them.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Bill KU8H
>>
>



Nick-WA5BDU
 

I think the output of a typical DDS is reasonably clean.  If the object is to make a receiver that tops Bob Sherwood’s list, some extra pains might be required. 
 
No, phase noise can’t be filtered.  I think with a DDS it’s related to jitter on the reference and with a PLL/VCO, it’s due to “hunting” by the feedback loop which causes a small amount of FMing.  I’m not sure any frequency source can be completely free of phase noise.
 
A DDS can usually be had for less than $10.00 and Arduino Nanos can be gotten 3 for $10 postpaid these days.  It’s hard to justify a bare MCU chip at those prices.
 
As far as channel indication goes,  with enough pins you would have plenty to do an LED per channel, but yeah there are surely better ways.  Looking at my old project, I think I used a piezo beeper to announce the channel in Morse.  But if you want to get fancy, nice backlit white on blue 2x16 LCD displays can be had for $1.89 each, postpaid. Amazing.  You could also use three LEDs in a binary weighted scheme ...
 
There are several other advantages associated with having your LO / VFO under software control.  You could implement RIT – not that the other guy might be off frequency, but so you can adjust his pitch to your liking.  And if you choose to have a superhet receiver instead of direct conversion, it’s easy to do the offset for the IF frequency.  And that’s not all (sounding like a TV pitch man now ...) you could toggle between the right LO frequency to receive CW or switch to the right frequency for decoding USB in the channel.  That would make cross-mode QSOs possible and possibly make it a bit easier to make sure the channel isn’t in use before calling. Or just for monitoring.
 
Fun stuff ...
 
73-
 
Nick, WA5BDU
 

Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter
 
 

Bill,

No I don't have information to refute the phase noise situation.  My thoughts are that at QRP levels, the problem is not as severe and may be able to be ignored.  At higher power levels, it is definitely a problem on the bands.
What I do know is that all DDS units are not the same, some are worse for phase noise than others.

IMHO, if the design point is for small, QRP and portable, the DDS solution is viable, or something like the SI570.  The nice part about that approach is that the generator can be easily offset for CW receive so it can be used not only as the transmit VFO, but also changed to be the LO source for a superhet receiver.  It is a small matter of programming.  It also makes multiband capability possible in a smaller package.  How about an 80, 60 (channelized), and 40 meter SSB and CW transceiver the size of an Elecraft K1.

Once one accepts the fact that properly designed firmware can be used, the possibilities of a small display (like the 3 digit LED display on the Elecraft KX1) is not only possible, but can add a lot of function to a small package.
OTOH, that may be too ambitious for a 4SQRP kit if the programming skills are not available to make that happen.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2015 12:30 PM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

Hi Don,

It's the close in phase noise that concerned me Some hams (and
engineers) have shown that it doesn't get filtered out. Apparently you
have to also filter out the desired signal to get the phase noise. Do
you have information that refutes this? It's easy to find misinformation
*everywhere* and maybe the best I have is wrong.

I would otherwise be happy to have something like that for my carrier
generator and heterodyne channel oscillators. My notion of seven xtals
(or available oscillator frequencies) is to allow for SSB *AND* CW in
one transmitter. That is one heterodyne frequency per channel (5) and
one each for either CW or SSB (2). Still five channels with a simple
selector.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 06/15/2015 11:11 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Following a DDS with a low pass filter will take care of most of the
> crud and the low pass filter on the PA will take care of the rest of it.
> I have looked at the spectrum of the Elecraft KX1 and the output is
> clean even though the source is a DDS.
>
> With the right firmware, I think the KX1 could easily be put on 60
> meters, but that firmware is Elecraft proprietary.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/15/2015 9:52 AM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nick,
>>
>> If we want "simple" LEDs would be overly complex and expensive. A
>> chicken-head knob can point at dymo label or sharpie numbers one through
>> five on the front panel..assuming we actually use a front panel.
>>
>> I have been avoiding the DDS type stuff to also avoid the transmitted
>> crud that goes along with them.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Bill KU8H
>>
>



Johnny AC0BQ
 

Hello Nick
Sounds like a design idea to me!
When do we get to see the prototype??
72
Johnny AC0BQ

On Monday, June 15, 2015, 'Nick Kennedy' nick-wa5bdu@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 

I think the output of a typical DDS is reasonably clean.  If the object is to make a receiver that tops Bob Sherwood’s list, some extra pains might be required. 
 
No, phase noise can’t be filtered.  I think with a DDS it’s related to jitter on the reference and with a PLL/VCO, it’s due to “hunting” by the feedback loop which causes a small amount of FMing.  I’m not sure any frequency source can be completely free of phase noise.
 
A DDS can usually be had for less than $10.00 and Arduino Nanos can be gotten 3 for $10 postpaid these days.  It’s hard to justify a bare MCU chip at those prices.
 
As far as channel indication goes,  with enough pins you would have plenty to do an LED per channel, but yeah there are surely better ways.  Looking at my old project, I think I used a piezo beeper to announce the channel in Morse.  But if you want to get fancy, nice backlit white on blue 2x16 LCD displays can be had for $1.89 each, postpaid. Amazing.  You could also use three LEDs in a binary weighted scheme ...
 
There are several other advantages associated with having your LO / VFO under software control.  You could implement RIT – not that the other guy might be off frequency, but so you can adjust his pitch to your liking.  And if you choose to have a superhet receiver instead of direct conversion, it’s easy to do the offset for the IF frequency.  And that’s not all (sounding like a TV pitch man now ...) you could toggle between the right LO frequency to receive CW or switch to the right frequency for decoding USB in the channel.  That would make cross-mode QSOs possible and possibly make it a bit easier to make sure the channel isn’t in use before calling. Or just for monitoring.
 
Fun stuff ...
 
73-
 
Nick, WA5BDU
 
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter
 
 

Bill,

No I don't have information to refute the phase noise situation.  My thoughts are that at QRP levels, the problem is not as severe and may be able to be ignored.  At higher power levels, it is definitely a problem on the bands.
What I do know is that all DDS units are not the same, some are worse for phase noise than others.

IMHO, if the design point is for small, QRP and portable, the DDS solution is viable, or something like the SI570.  The nice part about that approach is that the generator can be easily offset for CW receive so it can be used not only as the transmit VFO, but also changed to be the LO source for a superhet receiver.  It is a small matter of programming.  It also makes multiband capability possible in a smaller package.  How about an 80, 60 (channelized), and 40 meter SSB and CW transceiver the size of an Elecraft K1.

Once one accepts the fact that properly designed firmware can be used, the possibilities of a small display (like the 3 digit LED display on the Elecraft KX1) is not only possible, but can add a lot of function to a small package.
OTOH, that may be too ambitious for a 4SQRP kit if the programming skills are not available to make that happen.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2015 12:30 PM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

Hi Don,

It's the close in phase noise that concerned me Some hams (and
engineers) have shown that it doesn't get filtered out. Apparently you
have to also filter out the desired signal to get the phase noise. Do
you have information that refutes this? It's easy to find misinformation
*everywhere* and maybe the best I have is wrong.

I would otherwise be happy to have something like that for my carrier
generator and heterodyne channel oscillators. My notion of seven xtals
(or available oscillator frequencies) is to allow for SSB *AND* CW in
one transmitter. That is one heterodyne frequency per channel (5) and
one each for either CW or SSB (2). Still five channels with a simple
selector.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 06/15/2015 11:11 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Following a DDS with a low pass filter will take care of most of the
> crud and the low pass filter on the PA will take care of the rest of it.
> I have looked at the spectrum of the Elecraft KX1 and the output is
> clean even though the source is a DDS.
>
> With the right firmware, I think the KX1 could easily be put on 60
> meters, but that firmware is Elecraft proprietary.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 6/15/2015 9:52 AM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nick,
>>
>> If we want "simple" LEDs would be overly complex and expensive. A
>> chicken-head knob can point at dymo label or sharpie numbers one through
>> five on the front panel..assuming we actually use a front panel.
>>
>> I have been avoiding the DDS type stuff to also avoid the transmitted
>> crud that goes along with them.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Bill KU8H
>>
>




--
QRP....."More smiles per Watt"
72
JOHNNY AC0BQ  ..




Don Wilhelm <w3fpr@...>
 

Nick,

I have built plenty of DC receivers and have been disappointed by each of them.  Apologies to the DC receiver fans, but I like single signal receive and do not like the potential microphonics that some DC receivers produce.  I have tried them, and will trade the DC receiver for a superhet any day.  A good DC receiver may exist, but it takes great care in design and construction.  IMHO, those are "play" receivers and are not for any serious work.

A receiver that makes the top of the Sherwood listing would be 'overkill', but something with decent selectivity, image rejection, and reasonable sensitivity is in order for anything that can properly call itself a receiver in today's bands is a requirement IMHO.  Yes, that includes a receiver that will stand up in contest situations with QRO stations all around (good Dynamic Range), and adequate selectivity to separate stations in a pileup situation.

OK, all of that may not be applicable to operation on channelized 60 meters, but is my bottom-line requirement for a receiver.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2015 7:28 PM, 'Nick Kennedy' nick-wa5bdu@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

I think the output of a typical DDS is reasonably clean.  If the object is to make a receiver that tops Bob Sherwood’s list, some extra pains might be required. 
 
No, phase noise can’t be filtered.  I think with a DDS it’s related to jitter on the reference and with a PLL/VCO, it’s due to “hunting” by the feedback loop which causes a small amount of FMing.  I’m not sure any frequency source can be completely free of phase noise.
 
A DDS can usually be had for less than $10.00 and Arduino Nanos can be gotten 3 for $10 postpaid these days.  It’s hard to justify a bare MCU chip at those prices.
 
As far as channel indication goes,  with enough pins you would have plenty to do an LED per channel, but yeah there are surely better ways.  Looking at my old project, I think I used a piezo beeper to announce the channel in Morse.  But if you want to get fancy, nice backlit white on blue 2x16 LCD displays can be had for $1.89 each, postpaid. Amazing.  You could also use three LEDs in a binary weighted scheme ...
 
There are several other advantages associated with having your LO / VFO under software control.  You could implement RIT – not that the other guy might be off frequency, but so you can adjust his pitch to your liking.  And if you choose to have a superhet receiver instead of direct conversion, it’s easy to do the offset for the IF frequency.  And that’s not all (sounding like a TV pitch man now ...) you could toggle between the right LO frequency to receive CW or switch to the right frequency for decoding USB in the channel.  That would make cross-mode QSOs possible and possibly make it a bit easier to make sure the channel isn’t in use before calling. Or just for monitoring.
 



Todd K7TFC
 

This may be heresy in this day of DDS, but how about a good, old fashioned LC VFO for a simple 60M rig? Of course it would need to use NCO/C0G for fixed caps, an air variable, other low TC components, and be thermally insulated. It would also need to be well buffered to eliminate key-down drift, and it would need to be keyed at the driver stage so the VFO can remain free running. Okay, maybe it would need to warm up a little before it goes on the air. But simple it *would* be.

73,

Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-
7
 (P
​D
T)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Don Wilhelm w3fpr@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 

Nick,

I have built plenty of DC receivers and have been disappointed by each of them.  Apologies to the DC receiver fans, but I like single signal receive and do not like the potential microphonics that some DC receivers produce.  I have tried them, and will trade the DC receiver for a superhet any day.  A good DC receiver may exist, but it takes great care in design and construction.  IMHO, those are "play" receivers and are not for any serious work.

A receiver that makes the top of the Sherwood listing would be 'overkill', but something with decent selectivity, image rejection, and reasonable sensitivity is in order for anything that can properly call itself a receiver in today's bands is a requirement IMHO.  Yes, that includes a receiver that will stand up in contest situations with QRO stations all around (good Dynamic Range), and adequate selectivity to separate stations in a pileup situation.

OK, all of that may not be applicable to operation on channelized 60 meters, but is my bottom-line requirement for a receiver.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2015 7:28 PM, 'Nick Kennedy' nick-wa5bdu@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 

I think the output of a typical DDS is reasonably clean.  If the object is to make a receiver that tops Bob Sherwood’s list, some extra pains might be required. 
 
No, phase noise can’t be filtered.  I think with a DDS it’s related to jitter on the reference and with a PLL/VCO, it’s due to “hunting” by the feedback loop which causes a small amount of FMing.  I’m not sure any frequency source can be completely free of phase noise.
 
A DDS can usually be had for less than $10.00 and Arduino Nanos can be gotten 3 for $10 postpaid these days.  It’s hard to justify a bare MCU chip at those prices.
 
As far as channel indication goes,  with enough pins you would have plenty to do an LED per channel, but yeah there are surely better ways.  Looking at my old project, I think I used a piezo beeper to announce the channel in Morse.  But if you want to get fancy, nice backlit white on blue 2x16 LCD displays can be had for $1.89 each, postpaid. Amazing.  You could also use three LEDs in a binary weighted scheme ...
 
There are several other advantages associated with having your LO / VFO under software control.  You could implement RIT – not that the other guy might be off frequency, but so you can adjust his pitch to your liking.  And if you choose to have a superhet receiver instead of direct conversion, it’s easy to do the offset for the IF frequency.  And that’s not all (sounding like a TV pitch man now ...) you could toggle between the right LO frequency to receive CW or switch to the right frequency for decoding USB in the channel.  That would make cross-mode QSOs possible and possibly make it a bit easier to make sure the channel isn’t in use before calling. Or just for monitoring.
 




Nick-WA5BDU
 

Yeah, I like that better than crystals anyway.  But I wonder if you could get it calibrated well enough that you could set it close enough to the required discrete frequencies?  I’m not sure how close you’re expected to get, but I’d think 100 Hz should be OK.  But it would be hard to hit that close.  The “band” seems to be 73 kHz wide.  One solution would be to have an MCU monitor and annunciate the frequency – like a freqmite or equal.  OTOH, if you’re going with the original idea of a TX only and using the station receiver (presumably with modern accuracy), you could use it to get on frequency.
 
For the rest of the transmitter, whether DDS or L/C VFO controlled, I think stealing a bit of the ATS-3 design would be cool.  Just three cheap mosfets in parallel and a couple logic gates to interface between the VFO and the finals. Five watts, no heat sink.  David Cripe wrote up Class E design in QRP Quarterly some time back.  Lots of resources for design of the output networks.
 
73-
 
Nick, WA5BDU
 

Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] A simple 60 meter CW transmitter
 
 

This may be heresy in this day of DDS, but how about a good, old fashioned LC VFO for a simple 60M rig? Of course it would need to use NCO/C0G for fixed caps, an air variable, other low TC components, and be thermally insulated. It would also need to be well buffered to eliminate key-down drift, and it would need to be keyed at the driver stage so the VFO can remain free running. Okay, maybe it would need to warm up a little before it goes on the air. But simple it *would* be.
 
73,

Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-
7
(P
​D
T)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Don Wilhelm w3fpr@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
 

Nick,

I have built plenty of DC receivers and have been disappointed by each of them.  Apologies to the DC receiver fans, but I like single signal receive and do not like the potential microphonics that some DC receivers produce.  I have tried them, and will trade the DC receiver for a superhet any day.  A good DC receiver may exist, but it takes great care in design and construction.  IMHO, those are "play" receivers and are not for any serious work.

A receiver that makes the top of the Sherwood listing would be 'overkill', but something with decent selectivity, image rejection, and reasonable sensitivity is in order for anything that can properly call itself a receiver in today's bands is a requirement IMHO.  Yes, that includes a receiver that will stand up in contest situations with QRO stations all around (good Dynamic Range), and adequate selectivity to separate stations in a pileup situation.

OK, all of that may not be applicable to operation on channelized 60 meters, but is my bottom-line requirement for a receiver.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/15/2015 7:28 PM, 'Nick Kennedy' nick-wa5bdu@... [4sqrp] wrote:
 
I think the output of a typical DDS is reasonably clean.  If the object is to make a receiver that tops Bob Sherwood’s list, some extra pains might be required. 
 
No, phase noise can’t be filtered.  I think with a DDS it’s related to jitter on the reference and with a PLL/VCO, it’s due to “hunting” by the feedback loop which causes a small amount of FMing.  I’m not sure any frequency source can be completely free of phase noise.
 
A DDS can usually be had for less than $10.00 and Arduino Nanos can be gotten 3 for $10 postpaid these days.  It’s hard to justify a bare MCU chip at those prices.
 
As far as channel indication goes,  with enough pins you would have plenty to do an LED per channel, but yeah there are surely better ways.  Looking at my old project, I think I used a piezo beeper to announce the channel in Morse.  But if you want to get fancy, nice backlit white on blue 2x16 LCD displays can be had for $1.89 each, postpaid. Amazing.  You could also use three LEDs in a binary weighted scheme ...
 
There are several other advantages associated with having your LO / VFO under software control.  You could implement RIT – not that the other guy might be off frequency, but so you can adjust his pitch to your liking.  And if you choose to have a superhet receiver instead of direct conversion, it’s easy to do the offset for the IF frequency.  And that’s not all (sounding like a TV pitch man now ...) you could toggle between the right LO frequency to receive CW or switch to the right frequency for decoding USB in the channel.  That would make cross-mode QSOs possible and possibly make it a bit easier to make sure the channel isn’t in use before calling. Or just for monitoring.
 
 

 


Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Nick,

I'm not sure of the tolerances in the frequency specs either expect when I did see them I thought they were tighter than what we have in the ham bands. 60 meters is shared with gov't services being primary. The intent is to use 60 meters during emergencies that involve those agencies and us. I have to review those tolerances before I order an xtals for my own proposed project. I am not at all sure that an L-C free running VFO could maintain the tolerances.

FCC gives us tolerances in terms of parts per million or parts per billion. I'll look up the numbers and the specs for the temp compensated oscillator modules I already have and re-evaluate the whole project.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 06/15/2015 09:39 PM, 'Nick Kennedy' nick-wa5bdu@suddenlink.net [4sqrp] wrote:

Yeah, I like that better than crystals anyway. But I wonder if you could get it calibrated well enough that you could set it close enough to the required discrete frequencies? I’m not sure how close you’re expected to get, but I’d think 100 Hz should be OK. But it would be hard to hit that close. The “band” seems to be 73 kHz wide. One solution would be to have an MCU monitor and annunciate the frequency – like a freqmite or equal. OTOH, if you’re going with the original idea of a TX only and using the station receiver (presumably with modern accuracy), you could use it to get on frequency.
For the rest of the transmitter, whether DDS or L/C VFO controlled, I think stealing a bit of the ATS-3 design would be cool. Just three cheap mosfets in parallel and a couple logic gates to interface between the VFO and the finals. Five watts, no heat sink. David Cripe wrote up Class E design in QRP Quarterly some time back. Lots of resources for design of the output networks.
73-
Nick, WA5BDU


yahoomail@...
 

How about we drop back to a SINGLE channel design?  
Pick only one of the five 60 meter channels and have this radio become a 4SQRP intercom?
I'd leave that radio going 24/7 listening for 4SQRP members.  
W25 should be a snap.
72,
-Ed, WG5F-


Todd K7TFC
 

​On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 8:23 PM, Bill Cromwell wrcromwell@... [4sqrp] <4sqrp@...> wrote:
I'm not sure of the tolerances in the frequency specs either expect when
I did see them I thought they were tighter than what we have in the ham
bands. 60 meters is shared with gov't services being primary.
​I might be misunderstanding Bill on this point, but according to ARRL, these are the center frequencies for the channels:

​Channel 1: 5330.5 kHz
Channel 2: 5346.5 kHz
Channel 3: 5357.0 kHz
Channel 4: 5371.5 kHz
Channel 5: 5403.5 kHz

Centered on these frequencies is a maximum 2.8KHz. The ARRL doesn't seem concerned in their information about PPMs or specs other than the bandwidth. Are they and I missing something?

73,

Todd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K7TFC / Medford, Oregon, USA / CN82ni / UTC-
7
 (P
​D
T)
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g6ybc@...
 

HI All,

Kanga UK, has a number of 5 MHz (60m) Crystals in stock.

If any of you want to do a bulk order, I'll sort a discount

Look at Welcome to Kanga Products

 

Then click on the 5 MHz Crystals & Links page on the left of the page.

It was also good to meet some of you guys at FDIM, also my thanks to Terry who made me feel very welcome on Club night.

Best regards

Dennis G6YBC
Kanga (UK)