Bending the wire


Mlike McEwen
 

I used to have a good reference site for this but have lost it and haven't found a good one on the net.

It looks like I am going to have to use my antenna in the attic. It would require bending because of the available open space length.  Can I bend the 40 M and not screw things up? If bending is OK, what are the best options?

72/72 Doc K5OSA


John - KK4ITX
 

Doc,

What are the dimensions of your space ?

What type of antenna are you planning ?

John
KK4ITX



Click Here for Zephyrhills Area Amateur Radio Club
Many of life's failures are people who
did not realize how close they were to
success when they gave up.
       Thomas A. Edison     


On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 01:14:20 PM EDT, Mlike McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:


I used to have a good reference site for this but have lost it and haven't found a good one on the net.

It looks like I am going to have to use my antenna in the attic. It would require bending because of the available open space length.  Can I bend the 40 M and not screw things up? If bending is OK, what are the best options?

72/72 Doc K5OSA

--
John, KK4ITX       # 1603


John <johnk5mo@...>
 

Bending a wire is ok and works fine, within limits. Make sure to keep the ends away from any part of the structure (they're the HV  section of the antenna)

John K5MO


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 1:18 PM John - KK4ITX via groups.io <jleahy00=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Doc,

What are the dimensions of your space ?

What type of antenna are you planning ?

John
KK4ITX



Click Here for Zephyrhills Area Amateur Radio Club
Many of life's failures are people who
did not realize how close they were to
success when they gave up.
       Thomas A. Edison     


On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 01:14:20 PM EDT, Mlike McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:


I used to have a good reference site for this but have lost it and haven't found a good one on the net.

It looks like I am going to have to use my antenna in the attic. It would require bending because of the available open space length.  Can I bend the 40 M and not screw things up? If bending is OK, what are the best options?

72/72 Doc K5OSA

--
John, KK4ITX       # 1603


Mlike McEwen
 

I didn't mention this on the previous email...I plan to use my 10/20/40 end fed.  The max straight lines in the attic is 36X24. (Unobstructed)

Doc 


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 12:28 PM John <johnk5mo@...> wrote:
Bending a wire is ok and works fine, within limits. Make sure to keep the ends away from any part of the structure (they're the HV  section of the antenna)

John K5MO

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 1:18 PM John - KK4ITX via groups.io <jleahy00=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Doc,

What are the dimensions of your space ?

What type of antenna are you planning ?

John
KK4ITX



Click Here for Zephyrhills Area Amateur Radio Club
Many of life's failures are people who
did not realize how close they were to
success when they gave up.
       Thomas A. Edison     


On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 01:14:20 PM EDT, Mlike McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:


I used to have a good reference site for this but have lost it and haven't found a good one on the net.

It looks like I am going to have to use my antenna in the attic. It would require bending because of the available open space length.  Can I bend the 40 M and not screw things up? If bending is OK, what are the best options?

72/72 Doc K5OSA

--
John, KK4ITX       # 1603


Derek Burrage
 

Michael, I have an 80/40/20/10 m W8NX (ARRL Antenna Guide) trap dipole outside at about 30 ft, sloping somewhat. This allows me to work CW between Florida and Ohio from Louisiana with < 5 W. I also have a simple 40 m dipole in the attic, with a horizontal bend in one arm, starting about 10 feet from the feed, initially at about 30 deg then going to almost 90 deg at the end. I did this because I live in Louisiana, and wanted to expand my options when storms are about. My rigs are kit QRP, so I can't really say what I am losing, but it could be one or two S-units down on RX compared with the multibander (still plenty of signals on CW and even some on SSB, which is strictly not in the tuning range). The antenna is suspended from the roof rafters by string loops, a few feet down from the roof line. The key is to tune the attic antenna properly (I progressively shortened it, by ultimately a few feet, at each end) using my QRPOmeter to monitor SWR until I got a dip in the middle and < 2 over the General CW band. You need to know that your roof material will modify the dielectric environment of the antenna. My roof is conventional 'cork' tiling, and it changes the effective antenna length, and it will matter somewhat if the roof is wet or dry. I found this gave me a satisfactory alternative even during rain, at least for RX (Caveat TX/ QSO success has not yet been verified!). I hope this helps you get something working. 73, Derek (KF5CYN)


Lee
 

I used to use a loop of wire fed by an SGC autotuner. I was able to work 160-10 with this combination with up to 20 watts on CW/digital/SSB (50 watts on rare occasions). You can set the SGC to auto-tune every time the frequency changes, and route power through your coax by using power isolators; you end up with a totally remoted system. It worked well enough to earn DXCC................

73 deLee KX4TT

On Tuesday, 19 October 2021, 04:53:33 pm GMT-4, Derek Burrage <dmburrage425@...> wrote:


Michael, I have an 80/40/20/10 m W8NX (ARRL Antenna Guide) trap dipole outside at about 30 ft, sloping somewhat. This allows me to work CW between Florida and Ohio from Louisiana with < 5 W. I also have a simple 40 m dipole in the attic, with a horizontal bend in one arm, starting about 10 feet from the feed, initially at about 30 deg then going to almost 90 deg at the end. I did this because I live in Louisiana, and wanted to expand my options when storms are about. My rigs are kit QRP, so I can't really say what I am losing, but it could be one or two S-units down on RX compared with the multibander (still plenty of signals on CW and even some on SSB, which is strictly not in the tuning range). The antenna is suspended from the roof rafters by string loops, a few feet down from the roof line. The key is to tune the attic antenna properly (I progressively shortened it, by ultimately a few feet, at each end) using my QRPOmeter to monitor SWR until I got a dip in the middle and < 2 over the General CW band. You need to know that your roof material will modify the dielectric environment of the antenna. My roof is conventional 'cork' tiling, and it changes the effective antenna length, and it will matter somewhat if the roof is wet or dry. I found this gave me a satisfactory alternative even during rain, at least for RX (Caveat TX/ QSO success has not yet been verified!). I hope this helps you get something working. 73, Derek (KF5CYN)


Ted
 

How big a loop, please?  My end-fed inverted 'L'  [20' up, 35' across] does all bands about like that, but i would like to run a perimeter line around maybe 25ft by up to 40ft,  X 2.  Height maybe 5ft except one end's vertical detour across tree limbs, for walking.

If I transmit over 40 watts on 80M or much over 50w on 40M, I knock out the Xfinity modem.  This works out fine, since, If I need more than 40w on the higher bands I'm probably reading or building something instead.  Not that if I heard a VK or ZL, I wouldn't pour on the coal for a little.  Facebook can wait and the static from down the hall will go away soon enough.

-Ted
 K3RTA




On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 17:37, Lee via groups.io
<kx4tt@...> wrote:
I used to use a loop of wire fed by an SGC autotuner. I was able to work 160-10 with this combination with up to 20 watts on CW/digital/SSB (50 watts on rare occasions). You can set the SGC to auto-tune every time the frequency changes, and route power through your coax by using power isolators; you end up with a totally remoted system. It worked well enough to earn DXCC................

73 deLee KX4TT
On Tuesday, 19 October 2021, 04:53:33 pm GMT-4, Derek Burrage <dmburrage425@...> wrote:


Michael, I have an 80/40/20/10 m W8NX (ARRL Antenna Guide) trap dipole outside at about 30 ft, sloping somewhat. This allows me to work CW between Florida and Ohio from Louisiana with < 5 W. I also have a simple 40 m dipole in the attic, with a horizontal bend in one arm, starting about 10 feet from the feed, initially at about 30 deg then going to almost 90 deg at the end. I did this because I live in Louisiana, and wanted to expand my options when storms are about. My rigs are kit QRP, so I can't really say what I am losing, but it could be one or two S-units down on RX compared with the multibander (still plenty of signals on CW and even some on SSB, which is strictly not in the tuning range). The antenna is suspended from the roof rafters by string loops, a few feet down from the roof line. The key is to tune the attic antenna properly (I progressively shortened it, by ultimately a few feet, at each end) using my QRPOmeter to monitor SWR until I got a dip in the middle and < 2 over the General CW band. You need to know that your roof material will modify the dielectric environment of the antenna. My roof is conventional 'cork' tiling, and it changes the effective antenna length, and it will matter somewhat if the roof is wet or dry. I found this gave me a satisfactory alternative even during rain, at least for RX (Caveat TX/ QSO success has not yet been verified!). I hope this helps you get something working. 73, Derek (KF5CYN)


Lee
 

The loop was about 20M total - It was effective for 40-10, somewhat effective for 80, and just a few states on 160......I used as much wire as I could.

Lee, KX4TT

On Tuesday, 19 October 2021, 06:38:50 pm GMT-4, Ted via groups.io <k3rta@...> wrote:


How big a loop, please?  My end-fed inverted 'L'  [20' up, 35' across] does all bands about like that, but i would like to run a perimeter line around maybe 25ft by up to 40ft,  X 2.  Height maybe 5ft except one end's vertical detour across tree limbs, for walking.

If I transmit over 40 watts on 80M or much over 50w on 40M, I knock out the Xfinity modem.  This works out fine, since, If I need more than 40w on the higher bands I'm probably reading or building something instead.  Not that if I heard a VK or ZL, I wouldn't pour on the coal for a little.  Facebook can wait and the static from down the hall will go away soon enough.

-Ted
 K3RTA




On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 17:37, Lee via groups.io
<kx4tt@...> wrote:
I used to use a loop of wire fed by an SGC autotuner. I was able to work 160-10 with this combination with up to 20 watts on CW/digital/SSB (50 watts on rare occasions). You can set the SGC to auto-tune every time the frequency changes, and route power through your coax by using power isolators; you end up with a totally remoted system. It worked well enough to earn DXCC................

73 deLee KX4TT
On Tuesday, 19 October 2021, 04:53:33 pm GMT-4, Derek Burrage <dmburrage425@...> wrote:


Michael, I have an 80/40/20/10 m W8NX (ARRL Antenna Guide) trap dipole outside at about 30 ft, sloping somewhat. This allows me to work CW between Florida and Ohio from Louisiana with < 5 W. I also have a simple 40 m dipole in the attic, with a horizontal bend in one arm, starting about 10 feet from the feed, initially at about 30 deg then going to almost 90 deg at the end. I did this because I live in Louisiana, and wanted to expand my options when storms are about. My rigs are kit QRP, so I can't really say what I am losing, but it could be one or two S-units down on RX compared with the multibander (still plenty of signals on CW and even some on SSB, which is strictly not in the tuning range). The antenna is suspended from the roof rafters by string loops, a few feet down from the roof line. The key is to tune the attic antenna properly (I progressively shortened it, by ultimately a few feet, at each end) using my QRPOmeter to monitor SWR until I got a dip in the middle and < 2 over the General CW band. You need to know that your roof material will modify the dielectric environment of the antenna. My roof is conventional 'cork' tiling, and it changes the effective antenna length, and it will matter somewhat if the roof is wet or dry. I found this gave me a satisfactory alternative even during rain, at least for RX (Caveat TX/ QSO success has not yet been verified!). I hope this helps you get something working. 73, Derek (KF5CYN)


Thomas Martin
 

Some time ago the discussion was about antennas for limited spaces and mentioned that I had used the homes gutter system.
Here is a run down of what I used to make my gutters a working antenna. I obtained most of my information from articles on the internet and modified as to see fit to fit my location.
The back of my home which faces North has a continuous run of about 45 feet plus to down spouts each about 15 feet each giving me a length of roughly 75 feet. I must note none of the down spouts come on contact with the ground. I used a 9:1 unun which was attached to one of the down spouts I used self tapping metal screws to attach a short 14 gauge wire to the down spouts ( paint was removed around the crimp ring) this wire was attached to the unun. A wire from the radial terminal on the unun was the attaches to the ground rod. It should be noted that the wire from the down spout to the unun should be kept off the ground and I also kept it relatively short but that was my decision to do. I fed this with RG 8X. 
Using this arrangement I have been able to work North America South America, Europe at one point was able to work Japan and  Hawaii. I have ordered a commercial made gutter antenna which haven’t received yet but if there is interest I can share my results. 
This has been a great alternative for my HOA restrictions and my feelings I would use it even if I didn’t have HOA restrictions.

Tom
K0amd


Kent Trimble, K9ZTV
 

Way too sophisticated!

Newly graduated from grad school in 1970 and in a basement apartment, I ran a 20-gauge hookup wire out a window, under some gravel, through some bushes, to a self-tapping screw (to hell with the paint) into a downspout.  The other end to a UPC Unique Wire Tuner (that was its name and I still have it), to an FT-101B kicking out about 140 watts.   Same results plus wonderfully geometric TVI.  I only operated late at night.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV

On Oct 19, 2021, at 6:59 PM, Thomas Martin <tem494@...> wrote:

Some time ago the discussion was about antennas for limited spaces and mentioned that I had used the homes gutter system.
Here is a run down of what I used to make my gutters a working antenna. I obtained most of my information from articles on the internet and modified as to see fit to fit my location.
The back of my home which faces North has a continuous run of about 45 feet plus to down spouts each about 15 feet each giving me a length of roughly 75 feet. I must note none of the down spouts come on contact with the ground. I used a 9:1 unun which was attached to one of the down spouts I used self tapping metal screws to attach a short 14 gauge wire to the down spouts ( paint was removed around the crimp ring) this wire was attached to the unun. A wire from the radial terminal on the unun was the attaches to the ground rod. It should be noted that the wire from the down spout to the unun should be kept off the ground and I also kept it relatively short but that was my decision to do. I fed this with RG 8X. 
Using this arrangement I have been able to work North America South America, Europe at one point was able to work Japan and  Hawaii. I have ordered a commercial made gutter antenna which haven’t received yet but if there is interest I can share my results. 
This has been a great alternative for my HOA restrictions and my feelings I would use it even if I didn’t have HOA restrictions.

Tom
K0amd


OwlCricker - K7ULM
 

https://pa3hho.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/upc-unique-wire-tuner-2/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dick Wendell - K7ULM
406-781-1333

If you don't know Morse Code,
You don't know dit.


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:01 PM Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
Way too sophisticated!

Newly graduated from grad school in 1970 and in a basement apartment, I ran a 20-gauge hookup wire out a window, under some gravel, through some bushes, to a self-tapping screw (to hell with the paint) into a downspout.  The other end to a UPC Unique Wire Tuner (that was its name and I still have it), to an FT-101B kicking out about 140 watts.   Same results plus wonderfully geometric TVI.  I only operated late at night.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV

On Oct 19, 2021, at 6:59 PM, Thomas Martin <tem494@...> wrote:

Some time ago the discussion was about antennas for limited spaces and mentioned that I had used the homes gutter system.
Here is a run down of what I used to make my gutters a working antenna. I obtained most of my information from articles on the internet and modified as to see fit to fit my location.
The back of my home which faces North has a continuous run of about 45 feet plus to down spouts each about 15 feet each giving me a length of roughly 75 feet. I must note none of the down spouts come on contact with the ground. I used a 9:1 unun which was attached to one of the down spouts I used self tapping metal screws to attach a short 14 gauge wire to the down spouts ( paint was removed around the crimp ring) this wire was attached to the unun. A wire from the radial terminal on the unun was the attaches to the ground rod. It should be noted that the wire from the down spout to the unun should be kept off the ground and I also kept it relatively short but that was my decision to do. I fed this with RG 8X. 
Using this arrangement I have been able to work North America South America, Europe at one point was able to work Japan and  Hawaii. I have ordered a commercial made gutter antenna which haven’t received yet but if there is interest I can share my results. 
This has been a great alternative for my HOA restrictions and my feelings I would use it even if I didn’t have HOA restrictions.

Tom
K0amd


Kent Trimble, K9ZTV
 

Thanks, Dick. 

Kent



On Oct 19, 2021, at 10:17 PM, OwlCricker - K7ULM <dickw299@...> wrote:


https://pa3hho.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/upc-unique-wire-tuner-2/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dick Wendell - K7ULM
406-781-1333

If you don't know Morse Code,
You don't know dit.


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:01 PM Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
Way too sophisticated!

Newly graduated from grad school in 1970 and in a basement apartment, I ran a 20-gauge hookup wire out a window, under some gravel, through some bushes, to a self-tapping screw (to hell with the paint) into a downspout.  The other end to a UPC Unique Wire Tuner (that was its name and I still have it), to an FT-101B kicking out about 140 watts.   Same results plus wonderfully geometric TVI.  I only operated late at night.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV

On Oct 19, 2021, at 6:59 PM, Thomas Martin <tem494@...> wrote:

Some time ago the discussion was about antennas for limited spaces and mentioned that I had used the homes gutter system.
Here is a run down of what I used to make my gutters a working antenna. I obtained most of my information from articles on the internet and modified as to see fit to fit my location.
The back of my home which faces North has a continuous run of about 45 feet plus to down spouts each about 15 feet each giving me a length of roughly 75 feet. I must note none of the down spouts come on contact with the ground. I used a 9:1 unun which was attached to one of the down spouts I used self tapping metal screws to attach a short 14 gauge wire to the down spouts ( paint was removed around the crimp ring) this wire was attached to the unun. A wire from the radial terminal on the unun was the attaches to the ground rod. It should be noted that the wire from the down spout to the unun should be kept off the ground and I also kept it relatively short but that was my decision to do. I fed this with RG 8X. 
Using this arrangement I have been able to work North America South America, Europe at one point was able to work Japan and  Hawaii. I have ordered a commercial made gutter antenna which haven’t received yet but if there is interest I can share my results. 
This has been a great alternative for my HOA restrictions and my feelings I would use it even if I didn’t have HOA restrictions.

Tom
K0amd


Bobby Drummond
 

Question for the group:


Has anyone had success using a deliberate zig zag layout in an attic antenna?   I have an attic that is about 40 feet long at its longest point.  A doublet, if erected conventionally, would only be long enough for the 20 meter band and up.  I have heard (and used) an attic doublet antenna where the ends are bent in an L (one L pointed north on one side of the antenna and pointed south on the other side of the antenna)

If I laid out each side in a zig zag pattern I would be able to have more wire on each side, of course, but I am sure there would be some negative factors that would have to be considered.  I'm thinking that this might even give me enough wire in the air to be effective down to 40 meters.

Is there anyone on the list that could do an antenna modeling mock up of said antenna?

Bobby - AK4JA

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:29 PM Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
Thanks, Dick. 

Kent



On Oct 19, 2021, at 10:17 PM, OwlCricker - K7ULM <dickw299@...> wrote:


https://pa3hho.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/upc-unique-wire-tuner-2/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dick Wendell - K7ULM
406-781-1333

If you don't know Morse Code,
You don't know dit.


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:01 PM Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
Way too sophisticated!

Newly graduated from grad school in 1970 and in a basement apartment, I ran a 20-gauge hookup wire out a window, under some gravel, through some bushes, to a self-tapping screw (to hell with the paint) into a downspout.  The other end to a UPC Unique Wire Tuner (that was its name and I still have it), to an FT-101B kicking out about 140 watts.   Same results plus wonderfully geometric TVI.  I only operated late at night.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV

On Oct 19, 2021, at 6:59 PM, Thomas Martin <tem494@...> wrote:

Some time ago the discussion was about antennas for limited spaces and mentioned that I had used the homes gutter system.
Here is a run down of what I used to make my gutters a working antenna. I obtained most of my information from articles on the internet and modified as to see fit to fit my location.
The back of my home which faces North has a continuous run of about 45 feet plus to down spouts each about 15 feet each giving me a length of roughly 75 feet. I must note none of the down spouts come on contact with the ground. I used a 9:1 unun which was attached to one of the down spouts I used self tapping metal screws to attach a short 14 gauge wire to the down spouts ( paint was removed around the crimp ring) this wire was attached to the unun. A wire from the radial terminal on the unun was the attaches to the ground rod. It should be noted that the wire from the down spout to the unun should be kept off the ground and I also kept it relatively short but that was my decision to do. I fed this with RG 8X. 
Using this arrangement I have been able to work North America South America, Europe at one point was able to work Japan and  Hawaii. I have ordered a commercial made gutter antenna which haven’t received yet but if there is interest I can share my results. 
This has been a great alternative for my HOA restrictions and my feelings I would use it even if I didn’t have HOA restrictions.

Tom
K0amd



--
73 de AK4JA


David Wilcox K8WPE
 

Bobby,

You are overthinking this.  Put up the longest dipole you can in your attic, bend it where ever the roof boards allow you to attach. Feed it with 450 ohm window line. Get a low cost (or high cost) tuner and see where it resonates.  With low power (5 to 15 watts) you will get out somewhere and make contacts.  It’s just that the better the antenna (outside, higher, longer, etc.) the easier it will be to make a contact.  But first try the simple dipole as discussed above and see where your signal goes.  

My first antenna was a 30’ wire run out through the screen in our first home and tied around a tree branch and I made contacts with 2 watts on 40 and 15 meters.  The bands are getting better.  Have fun. Once you get started you can try all kinds of wires in many hidden installations.  Then have fun experimenting, but some antennas will work better than others.  Just do it!

Dave K8WPE since 1960

David J. Wilcox’s iPad

On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:55 AM, Bobby Drummond <alphak4ja@...> wrote:


Question for the group:


Has anyone had success using a deliberate zig zag layout in an attic antenna?   I have an attic that is about 40 feet long at its longest point.  A doublet, if erected conventionally, would only be long enough for the 20 meter band and up.  I have heard (and used) an attic doublet antenna where the ends are bent in an L (one L pointed north on one side of the antenna and pointed south on the other side of the antenna)

If I laid out each side in a zig zag pattern I would be able to have more wire on each side, of course, but I am sure there would be some negative factors that would have to be considered.  I'm thinking that this might even give me enough wire in the air to be effective down to 40 meters.

Is there anyone on the list that could do an antenna modeling mock up of said antenna?

Bobby - AK4JA

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:29 PM Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
Thanks, Dick. 

Kent



On Oct 19, 2021, at 10:17 PM, OwlCricker - K7ULM <dickw299@...> wrote:


https://pa3hho.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/upc-unique-wire-tuner-2/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dick Wendell - K7ULM
406-781-1333

If you don't know Morse Code,
You don't know dit.


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:01 PM Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
Way too sophisticated!

Newly graduated from grad school in 1970 and in a basement apartment, I ran a 20-gauge hookup wire out a window, under some gravel, through some bushes, to a self-tapping screw (to hell with the paint) into a downspout.  The other end to a UPC Unique Wire Tuner (that was its name and I still have it), to an FT-101B kicking out about 140 watts.   Same results plus wonderfully geometric TVI.  I only operated late at night.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV

On Oct 19, 2021, at 6:59 PM, Thomas Martin <tem494@...> wrote:

Some time ago the discussion was about antennas for limited spaces and mentioned that I had used the homes gutter system.
Here is a run down of what I used to make my gutters a working antenna. I obtained most of my information from articles on the internet and modified as to see fit to fit my location.
The back of my home which faces North has a continuous run of about 45 feet plus to down spouts each about 15 feet each giving me a length of roughly 75 feet. I must note none of the down spouts come on contact with the ground. I used a 9:1 unun which was attached to one of the down spouts I used self tapping metal screws to attach a short 14 gauge wire to the down spouts ( paint was removed around the crimp ring) this wire was attached to the unun. A wire from the radial terminal on the unun was the attaches to the ground rod. It should be noted that the wire from the down spout to the unun should be kept off the ground and I also kept it relatively short but that was my decision to do. I fed this with RG 8X. 
Using this arrangement I have been able to work North America South America, Europe at one point was able to work Japan and  Hawaii. I have ordered a commercial made gutter antenna which haven’t received yet but if there is interest I can share my results. 
This has been a great alternative for my HOA restrictions and my feelings I would use it even if I didn’t have HOA restrictions.

Tom
K0amd



--
73 de AK4JA


N5SE
 

Bobby, you are exactly right with one caveat.  My new house was built for energy efficiency.  Won't go into all the stuff they did, but the roof base is particle board with an shiny aluminum base.  The idea is that a major portion of the incoming heat is reflected back into the atmosphere.  All of the roof is bungalow style except for one peak facing due south.  It is so efficient that all attic  antennas have no outside world incoming or outgoing radiation except for a very narrow window due south.  I have three tower mounted VHF/UHF repeaters within ten miles that I cannot receive or hit with an attic mounted slim-jim.  Walk out the front door with my handheld with rubber duck and hit all three with 5/9 signal plus several others miles away.  Closest repeater to the south is over seventy miles away at an angle.  At night, the attic dipole says that 80 and 40 are dead; except for that narrow slice facing the Gulf of Mexico, the narrow slice between Africa and South America.

Big moral of the story, check the roofing for radiation shielding as well as other oppressive bends and turns.  Look for anything big and metal.  My gas fireplace is located on the interior of the house, not an outside wall.  The fake chimney is double wall steel to cut leakage of heat on the hot gases vented up six feet above the roof high point.  I spent hours with field strength meters, SWR bridges, baluns, ugly baluns, portable receivers, banging my head on rafters, etc.  I cannot believe that my roof provides an almost perfect dummy load. 

But all is well, now I know and can survive and learned a lot.  The gutters are up, and they are metal.  Lots of places to tap in on them.  Have already got mounts up for the UHF/VHF antenna, just have to weatherproof the slim-jim.

Billy Wayne Moore


From: main@4SQRP.groups.io <main@4SQRP.groups.io> on behalf of David Wilcox K8WPE via groups.io <Djwilcox01@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 14:54
To: main@4sqrp.groups.io <main@4sqrp.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [4SQRP] Bending the wire
 
Bobby,

You are overthinking this.  Put up the longest dipole you can in your attic, bend it where ever the roof boards allow you to attach. Feed it with 450 ohm window line. Get a low cost (or high cost) tuner and see where it resonates.  With low power (5 to 15 watts) you will get out somewhere and make contacts.  It’s just that the better the antenna (outside, higher, longer, etc.) the easier it will be to make a contact.  But first try the simple dipole as discussed above and see where your signal goes.  

My first antenna was a 30’ wire run out through the screen in our first home and tied around a tree branch and I made contacts with 2 watts on 40 and 15 meters.  The bands are getting better.  Have fun. Once you get started you can try all kinds of wires in many hidden installations.  Then have fun experimenting, but some antennas will work better than others.  Just do it!

Dave K8WPE since 1960

David J. Wilcox’s iPad

On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:55 AM, Bobby Drummond <alphak4ja@...> wrote:


Question for the group:


Has anyone had success using a deliberate zig zag layout in an attic antenna?   I have an attic that is about 40 feet long at its longest point.  A doublet, if erected conventionally, would only be long enough for the 20 meter band and up.  I have heard (and used) an attic doublet antenna where the ends are bent in an L (one L pointed north on one side of the antenna and pointed south on the other side of the antenna)

If I laid out each side in a zig zag pattern I would be able to have more wire on each side, of course, but I am sure there would be some negative factors that would have to be considered.  I'm thinking that this might even give me enough wire in the air to be effective down to 40 meters.

Is there anyone on the list that could do an antenna modeling mock up of said antenna?

Bobby - AK4JA

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:29 PM Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
Thanks, Dick. 

Kent



On Oct 19, 2021, at 10:17 PM, OwlCricker - K7ULM <dickw299@...> wrote:


https://pa3hho.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/upc-unique-wire-tuner-2/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dick Wendell - K7ULM
406-781-1333

If you don't know Morse Code,
You don't know dit.


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:01 PM Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...> wrote:
Way too sophisticated!

Newly graduated from grad school in 1970 and in a basement apartment, I ran a 20-gauge hookup wire out a window, under some gravel, through some bushes, to a self-tapping screw (to hell with the paint) into a downspout.  The other end to a UPC Unique Wire Tuner (that was its name and I still have it), to an FT-101B kicking out about 140 watts.   Same results plus wonderfully geometric TVI.  I only operated late at night.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV

On Oct 19, 2021, at 6:59 PM, Thomas Martin <tem494@...> wrote:

Some time ago the discussion was about antennas for limited spaces and mentioned that I had used the homes gutter system.
Here is a run down of what I used to make my gutters a working antenna. I obtained most of my information from articles on the internet and modified as to see fit to fit my location.
The back of my home which faces North has a continuous run of about 45 feet plus to down spouts each about 15 feet each giving me a length of roughly 75 feet. I must note none of the down spouts come on contact with the ground. I used a 9:1 unun which was attached to one of the down spouts I used self tapping metal screws to attach a short 14 gauge wire to the down spouts ( paint was removed around the crimp ring) this wire was attached to the unun. A wire from the radial terminal on the unun was the attaches to the ground rod. It should be noted that the wire from the down spout to the unun should be kept off the ground and I also kept it relatively short but that was my decision to do. I fed this with RG 8X. 
Using this arrangement I have been able to work North America South America, Europe at one point was able to work Japan and  Hawaii. I have ordered a commercial made gutter antenna which haven’t received yet but if there is interest I can share my results. 
This has been a great alternative for my HOA restrictions and my feelings I would use it even if I didn’t have HOA restrictions.

Tom
K0amd



--
73 de AK4JA


Curt
 

I was operating from my son's HOA house with an off center fed dipole cut for 30m, around 47 feet total fed at one third point with ladder line. The longer side put near peak of rafters, straight from feed point and bent at end. The smaller end was pretty much positioned where it fit. Made qrp contacts from 40 to 15 meters using a zm2 tuner. Of course the 4state tuner could work well here. My operating position was close to where feed enters attic which helped minimize its radiation. I also had used same ocfd from a cabin, to mate with a popular qrp rig that covers only 40 30 and 20 meters. As ocfd does better than center fed on even harmonics its worth consideration. Remember center is most important for radiation, and as others here note keep the ends away from significant metal objects. 

Curt