Topics

K8IQY Stand Alone VXO Problem


Robert Harrison
 

Hello,

The VXO frequency at the first test step in the instructions is incorrect, getting 7127.36 to 7129.44, s/b ~7115 to 7123, wondering if anyone else has experienced the issue and/or has suggestions.

Have visually checked the components twice, reheated solder joints, crystals measured 7122.69, 7122.71 & 7122.71 as best i can measure, voltage varies from 14 down to 0.6 v at VR1 thru to the crystals, L4 is marked as 18 uh.

thanks,
robert kg6tgi


Johnny AC0BQ
 

Hello Robert
It would be your best bet to reach out to Jim Kortge.
His email is Jim.k8iqy@...

Good luck,
72
Johnny ACØBQ 


On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 10:26 PM Robert Harrison via groups.io <rm.harrison=zoho.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello,

The VXO frequency at the first test step in the instructions is incorrect, getting 7127.36 to 7129.44, s/b ~7115 to 7123, wondering if anyone else has experienced the issue and/or has suggestions.

Have visually checked the components twice, reheated solder joints, crystals measured 7122.69, 7122.71 & 7122.71 as best i can measure, voltage varies from 14 down to 0.6 v at VR1 thru to the crystals, L4 is marked as 18 uh.

thanks,
robert kg6tgi

--
Check out the 4SQRP website at 4sqrp.com


Wayne McFee
 

Hello Robert and Merry Christmas to you and yours,

 

The first thing I would check is if D1 is installed correctly.  Of course if it is in there backwards, I would expect you to read a somewhat normal diode voltage drop from the junction of D1 and L4 (easily measured on the exposed lead of L4) instead of the varying voltage needed in order to change its capacitance.

 

So if you measure the voltage on the junction of D1 and L4 and it does in fact vary at that point from the amount of your supply voltage down to the .6 volt diode junction drop of D2, then it must be installed correctly.  You can check for cold solder joints by measuring the resistance from the actual lead of the part to the pad of the next component it connects to.

 

You can also remove D1 and connect any old air variable capacitor you may have in its place and see what difference that makes

 

The frequency swing of only about 2 KHz suggests the behavior one would expect if there were only one crystal connected.  So if D1 is installed correctly and replacing it with an air variable doesn’t change things, then I would look carefully at L4 to be absolutely certain you don’t have the 1.2 uH coil installed there instead of the needed 18 uH. 

 

If that is OK (and you could remove it and measure its inductance if you have that ability), then I would check to be sure that the leads of each crystal are actually making good contact with their traces so that they are in fact connected properly in parallel.  Again, it is behaving like what I would expect if only one crystal was connected.

 

When paralleled crystals are used in a VXO, it would seem that the motional capacitances are multiplied instead of simply adding and that is why we are able to pull the frequency of the paralleled crystals so far away from their stated frequency.

 

The above should give you some starting places at least.

 

73,

 

Wayne  NB6M

 

 

 

 

 

From: Robert Harrison via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 8:26 PM
To: main@4SQRP.groups.io
Subject: [4SQRP] K8IQY Stand Alone VXO Problem

 

Hello,

The VXO frequency at the first test step in the instructions is incorrect, getting 7127.36 to 7129.44, s/b ~7115 to 7123, wondering if anyone else has experienced the issue and/or has suggestions.

Have visually checked the components twice, reheated solder joints, crystals measured 7122.69, 7122.71 & 7122.71 as best i can measure, voltage varies from 14 down to 0.6 v at VR1 thru to the crystals, L4 is marked as 18 uh.

thanks,
robert kg6tgi

 


Robert Harrison
 

Update, i managed to inserted the 18 ohm resistor for the 18 uh choke, K8IQY also caught that after I sent him a picture.  I missed the 5th color band on the resistor, looked at it at least three times.

Put in the correct part, now have 7118.6 to 7126 khz adjustment with VR1.  A little higher than the nominal of 7115 to 7123.

Thanks for your help and others also who responded.

robert kg6tgi



---- On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 10:34:10 -0800 Wayne McFee <nb6m@...> wrote ----

Hello Robert and Merry Christmas to you and yours,

 

The first thing I would check is if D1 is installed correctly.  Of course if it is in there backwards, I would expect you to read a somewhat normal diode voltage drop from the junction of D1 and L4 (easily measured on the exposed lead of L4) instead of the varying voltage needed in order to change its capacitance.

 

So if you measure the voltage on the junction of D1 and L4 and it does in fact vary at that point from the amount of your supply voltage down to the .6 volt diode junction drop of D2, then it must be installed correctly.  You can check for cold solder joints by measuring the resistance from the actual lead of the part to the pad of the next component it connects to.

 

You can also remove D1 and connect any old air variable capacitor you may have in its place and see what difference that makes

 

The frequency swing of only about 2 KHz suggests the behavior one would expect if there were only one crystal connected.  So if D1 is installed correctly and replacing it with an air variable doesn’t change things, then I would look carefully at L4 to be absolutely certain you don’t have the 1.2 uH coil installed there instead of the needed 18 uH. 

 

If that is OK (and you could remove it and measure its inductance if you have that ability), then I would check to be sure that the leads of each crystal are actually making good contact with their traces so that they are in fact connected properly in parallel.  Again, it is behaving like what I would expect if only one crystal was connected.

 

When paralleled crystals are used in a VXO, it would seem that the motional capacitances are multiplied instead of simply adding and that is why we are able to pull the frequency of the paralleled crystals so far away from their stated frequency.

 

The above should give you some starting places at least.

 

73,

 

Wayne  NB6M

 

 

 

 

 

From: Robert Harrison via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 8:26 PM
To: main@4SQRP.groups.io
Subject: [4SQRP] K8IQY Stand Alone VXO Problem

 

Hello,

The VXO frequency at the first test step in the instructions is incorrect, getting 7127.36 to 7129.44, s/b ~7115 to 7123, wondering if anyone else has experienced the issue and/or has suggestions.

Have visually checked the components twice, reheated solder joints, crystals measured 7122.69, 7122.71 & 7122.71 as best i can measure, voltage varies from 14 down to 0.6 v at VR1 thru to the crystals, L4 is marked as 18 uh.

thanks,
robert kg6tgi


 






Wayne McFee
 

Glad you got it sorted out.

73,

Wayne


On Dec 25, 2020, at 15:44, Robert Harrison via groups.io <rm.harrison@...> wrote:


Update, i managed to inserted the 18 ohm resistor for the 18 uh choke, K8IQY also caught that after I sent him a picture.  I missed the 5th color band on the resistor, looked at it at least three times.

Put in the correct part, now have 7118.6 to 7126 khz adjustment with VR1.  A little higher than the nominal of 7115 to 7123.

Thanks for your help and others also who responded.

robert kg6tgi



---- On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 10:34:10 -0800 Wayne McFee <nb6m@...> wrote ----

Hello Robert and Merry Christmas to you and yours,

 

The first thing I would check is if D1 is installed correctly.  Of course if it is in there backwards, I would expect you to read a somewhat normal diode voltage drop from the junction of D1 and L4 (easily measured on the exposed lead of L4) instead of the varying voltage needed in order to change its capacitance.

 

So if you measure the voltage on the junction of D1 and L4 and it does in fact vary at that point from the amount of your supply voltage down to the .6 volt diode junction drop of D2, then it must be installed correctly.  You can check for cold solder joints by measuring the resistance from the actual lead of the part to the pad of the next component it connects to.

 

You can also remove D1 and connect any old air variable capacitor you may have in its place and see what difference that makes

 

The frequency swing of only about 2 KHz suggests the behavior one would expect if there were only one crystal connected.  So if D1 is installed correctly and replacing it with an air variable doesn’t change things, then I would look carefully at L4 to be absolutely certain you don’t have the 1.2 uH coil installed there instead of the needed 18 uH. 

 

If that is OK (and you could remove it and measure its inductance if you have that ability), then I would check to be sure that the leads of each crystal are actually making good contact with their traces so that they are in fact connected properly in parallel.  Again, it is behaving like what I would expect if only one crystal was connected.

 

When paralleled crystals are used in a VXO, it would seem that the motional capacitances are multiplied instead of simply adding and that is why we are able to pull the frequency of the paralleled crystals so far away from their stated frequency.

 

The above should give you some starting places at least.

 

73,

 

Wayne  NB6M

 

 

 

 

 

From: Robert Harrison via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 8:26 PM
To: main@4SQRP.groups.io
Subject: [4SQRP] K8IQY Stand Alone VXO Problem

 

Hello,

The VXO frequency at the first test step in the instructions is incorrect, getting 7127.36 to 7129.44, s/b ~7115 to 7123, wondering if anyone else has experienced the issue and/or has suggestions.

Have visually checked the components twice, reheated solder joints, crystals measured 7122.69, 7122.71 & 7122.71 as best i can measure, voltage varies from 14 down to 0.6 v at VR1 thru to the crystals, L4 is marked as 18 uh.

thanks,
robert kg6tgi


 






Curt
 

Fantastic. Whenever you are uncertain identifying resistors and chokes, use your dvm.

It might be interesting to add a little more inductance in series to see if you can pull it lower.

Coolest vxo? The norcal 38special uses a 22 Mhz crystal that covers nearly 20 kHz, then it mixes down with another xtal to reach 30m. Would be cool to get a vxo onto 28 MHz for the next peak.

73 curt


WA4EFS
 

Another similar suggestion. Amazon sells what they call a multifunction tester (range $10 - $15). These amazing devices display the schematic symbol of the part as well as its value. If you test a molded inductor it will display the inductor symbol along with the measured value. They also do transistors, diodes, capacitors, and resistors.  The one I have is more accurate than the handheld LCR meter, and measures to a lower range than the LCR meter.

 

73, -WA4EFS

 

From: main@4SQRP.groups.io [mailto:main@4SQRP.groups.io] On Behalf Of Curt via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2020 10:09 PM
To: main@4SQRP.groups.io
Subject: Re: [4SQRP] K8IQY Stand Alone VXO Problem

 

Fantastic. Whenever you are uncertain identifying resistors and chokes, use your dvm.

It might be interesting to add a little more inductance in series to see if you can pull it lower.

Coolest vxo? The norcal 38special uses a 22 Mhz crystal that covers nearly 20 kHz, then it mixes down with another xtal to reach 30m. Would be cool to get a vxo onto 28 MHz for the next peak.

73 curt


Robert Harrison
 

Hi Curt-

Added the spare 1.2 uh choke in series as an experiment, there are two spare pads for adding 2 additional inductors in series for such experimentation on other frequencies or in this case closer to the values specified in the assembly manual.

Successfully, moved the frequency now to 7114.25 - 7125.52, figure that is "good enough", no other molded chokes just sitting around.

Trying to complete some old projects that have been sitting around unfinished, this one since 2012 was partially completed.  Was to be included with a NS-40 also unfinished.

Happy New Year,

robert kg6tgi



---- On Fri, 25 Dec 2020 19:09:27 -0800 Curt via groups.io <wb8yyy@...> wrote ----

Fantastic. Whenever you are uncertain identifying resistors and chokes, use your dvm.

It might be interesting to add a little more inductance in series to see if you can pull it lower.

Coolest vxo? The norcal 38special uses a 22 Mhz crystal that covers nearly 20 kHz, then it mixes down with another xtal to reach 30m. Would be cool to get a vxo onto 28 MHz for the next peak.

73 curt