long wire


Mlike McEwen
 

Does anyone  have experience using a long wire antenna? I have read two accounts claiming that the right length wire and a tuner make a decent setup in extreme situations where other options are problematic.  I can see how putting one together might be a good aotion in some cases.

Is this just a pipe dream?  Thought I'd try to get group input before I try this on 40 M.

72, DOC K5OSA





Leon Pulsinelle
 

I used an end fed wire for a couple of months. I always got good signal reports. It did not receive as well as my windom antenna (signals were lower). Also, it seemed like every other day or at least once a week, I had to trouble shoot the antenna to get my SWR back in order. I chose the stability of the windom antenna and replaced it. Hope this is useful. 73’ Leon

On Oct 10, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Mlike McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:

Does anyone  have experience using a long wire antenna? I have read two accounts claiming that the right length wire and a tuner make a decent setup in extreme situations where other options are problematic.  I can see how putting one together might be a good aotion in some cases.

Is this just a pipe dream?  Thought I'd try to get group input before I try this on 40 M.

72, DOC K5OSA






Roger-N0RSR
 

I currently use an EFHW with the Xiegu G90 and get decent results.

However, when I've used the same radio with a linked dipole, I  seem to get better results.

The G90 has a decent tuner built in but the amount of tuning is drastically different between the EFHW(not really resonant on any band) and the linked dipole(cut/tuned to 20/40m). 

I recently ran WSPR testing on a linked dipole and a vertical with a loading coil(similar to wolf river coil antenna) at 200mw, the linked dipole hit DX and the vertical didn't. 

I feel I've dropped a bit of cash on antennas, but seem to keep coming back to speaker wire dipoles connected to a usb to binding post adapter center.

-Roger
N0RSR

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 1:24 PM Mlike McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:
Does anyone  have experience using a long wire antenna? I have read two accounts claiming that the right length wire and a tuner make a decent setup in extreme situations where other options are problematic.  I can see how putting one together might be a good aotion in some cases.

Is this just a pipe dream?  Thought I'd try to get group input before I try this on 40 M.

72, DOC K5OSA





Tim N9PUZ
 

Doc,

An EFRW (End Fed Random Wire) is a pretty good antenna. BUT, the length of the wire is not random but it is easy to determine.

I use both 35.5 and 41 ft wires with a 9:1 UNUN for portable operation with my KX2 and its internal tuner. I do not have any way to do a really scientific comparison but I make plenty of contacts usually 40-10 Meters. I know several people who use an 84 ft or longer wire to get 80-10 Meter coverage.

Here is a link that explains why and includes a list of the best lengths to use for multi-band coverage. The short version of the explanation is you cannot use a half wavelength of wire or any multiple of a half wavelength for any band where you want to operate.

Random Wire Antennas - Best Lengths To Use For Random Wire (hamuniverse.com)

This may not matter for home use but I find that the exact same antenna length works very noticeably better if you keep the UNUN up off the ground by a couple of feet or more. I find if I tie mu UNUN to a hiking stick or one of those plastic electric fence posts it works really well.

You can either use a separate counterpoise wire or a piece of coax so the shield is the counterpoise. In my unscientific application, I've found that shorter coax, say 10 ft or less, doesn't always work on every band. I started using a 25 ft length of coax and am always able to get a good match.

In addition to my KX2, I've also used an MTR-4B with an external Emtech Z-match and it works well also.

Tim N9PUZ

On 10/10/2021 3:24 PM, Mlike McEwen wrote:
Does anyone  have experience using a long wire antenna? I have read two accounts claiming that the right length wire and a tuner make a decent setup in extreme situations where other options are problematic.  I can see how putting one together might be a good aotion in some cases.

Is this just a pipe dream?  Thought I'd try to get group input before I try this on 40 M.

72, DOC K5OSA


Adam
 

Hi, 
I use an end fed half wave cut to resonance at the centre frequency of the band I am using.
I managed to achieve 7468km distance with 20w on 3Khz voice from Brisbane to Hawaii.
I built a 49:1 Balun for use with it.


John - KK4ITX
 

Doc,

I am using a 40m EFHW wire at 65 ft and a toroid.  I can operate without a tuner on 40/20/15/12/10/6m and on all the others 160/80/30/17 with the tuner in either my FT-450D or FT-818D.  I mostly do QRP @ 5w.  Total cost under $25.

John
KK4ITX 

Visit:  www.zaarc.org.   👁

On Oct 10, 2021, at 16:24, Mlike McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:

Does anyone  have experience using a long wire antenna? I have read two accounts claiming that the right length wire and a tuner make a decent setup in extreme situations where other options are problematic.  I can see how putting one together might be a good aotion in some cases.

Is this just a pipe dream?  Thought I'd try to get group input before I try this on 40 M.

72, DOC K5OSA





--
John, KK4ITX       # 1603


Ryan Flowers
 

I have used a long wire for at least a couple years. I don't know how long it was, that was kind of the point of it for me ;) I experimented with different lengths, and if a length didn't tune well, I cut a foot or two off and tried again. I used the simple L-Match tuner shown here:

https://miscdotgeek.com/qrp-l-match-tuner-build/

I decided to try a 49:1 unun with an end fed half wave, and I really like it. No re-tuning! I doubt I'll go back to the random wire except for portable use. It's easy to build:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jgZic_eREg

I hope this helps ya :) 


Robert Harrison
 

I used to use a random length wire in the attic in our antenna restricted home in S Calif connected to qrp turner running 5 to 10 watts only.  It worked, but  not ideal.
robert kg6tgi



---- On Sun, 10 Oct 2021 13:24:11 -0700 Mlike McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote ----

Does anyone  have experience using a long wire antenna? I have read two accounts claiming that the right length wire and a tuner make a decent setup in extreme situations where other options are problematic.  I can see how putting one together might be a good aotion in some cases.

Is this just a pipe dream?  Thought I'd try to get group input before I try this on 40 M.

72, DOC K5OSA









Leon Pulsinelle
 

No doubt, these antennae are quite versitile. When I was using mine I loved having 15 and 30 available. 

On Oct 10, 2021, at 6:33 PM, John - KK4ITX via groups.io <jleahy00@...> wrote:

Doc,

I am using a 40m EFHW wire at 65 ft and a toroid.  I can operate without a tuner on 40/20/15/12/10/6m and on all the others 160/80/30/17 with the tuner in either my FT-450D or FT-818D.  I mostly do QRP @ 5w.  Total cost under $25.

John
KK4ITX 

Visit:  www.zaarc.org.   👁

On Oct 10, 2021, at 16:24, Mlike McEwen <michael.t.mcewen@...> wrote:

Does anyone  have experience using a long wire antenna? I have read two accounts claiming that the right length wire and a tuner make a decent setup in extreme situations where other options are problematic.  I can see how putting one together might be a good aotion in some cases.

Is this just a pipe dream?  Thought I'd try to get group input before I try this on 40 M.

72, DOC K5OSA





--
John, KK4ITX       # 1603


Gwen Patton
 

I had an Offset Leg Dipole for years, until it came down in a storm. The storm also took down a tree I was using as a support at the far end of the short leg, so I needed a new solution. The only other tree in the front would require me to cross over my house power access line with the wire, and I didn't like that option.

After much research, I tried a variation of the W3EDP end-fed wire antenna. I've tried it in inverted-L configuration and straight configuration. I have one in straight configuration now, and it works very well. It's not hard to make, and if you can make the requisite 4:1 current balun, it's not expensive, either. It can be made in several overall sizes, with commensurate reduction in efficiency, but it's still quite suitable. I've always been able to tune it on any band with the tuner in my KXPA100 amp or my KX3.

Here are links to all three articles:

My other base antenna is a compromise vertical, the Comet CHA-250b. It works quite well for a transformer "resonant" vertical. I don't need to use an external tuner on any band it claims to support. But as a compromise antenna, it's decent but not fantastic on any band. It does what I want, so it's ok. But I surely love the W3EDP variants I've been using. When the storm took my dipole down, I ran a half-sized one to that other tree out front, and it worked well enough to operate through winter.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


K9NUD-Steve
 
Edited

Mike, there’s a lot of confusion about long wire antennas. Many consider an end-fed half wave (typically using a 49:1 or 64:1 transformer) to be a long wire. That’s technically not true. A long wire is deliberately non-resonant, since resonance on any band would result in an unacceptable high impedance. That’s where the EFHW works best, as the transformer can deliver something closer to 50 ohms to the radio.

A true long wire is typically used with a 9:1 un-un transformer. If the length of the wire is not resonant, the resistance will be closer to 500 ohms. A 9:1 transformer can get that much closer to 50 ohms on several frequencies, leaving a value that your internal tuner has a better chance to match.

9:1 end-fed long wire antennas must be designed to be non-resonant on all the bands you hope to use. The math isn’t too tough, and thankfully others have done it. There are several websites that mention the “magic lengths”, but most arrive at the same conclusion:  “The magic lengths to use with the End Fed longwire is 29, 35.5, 41, 58, 71 and 84 feet”

There are longer lengths as well. I just installed a 105’ inverted L with a 9:1 un-un. It seems to outperform my 6BTV and my EFHW, though the latter is not mounted as high. I’m currently experimenting with the transformer, comparing one with an iron core toroid versus a ferrite core. The ferrite is getting most of the desired bands closer to resonance. It definitely tunes easier, particularly on the low bands. I need to do more testing, and possibly add 19’ to the antenna to get to 124, another oft-mentioned length. 

I have used a 29’ vertical for portable ops with a 9:1 un-un mounted to the winder, along with a 16’ counterpoise. It performs quite nicely on 40M up. I run QRP and routinely work the whole country and plenty of Europeans on 20M. I’m eager to try is on higher bands as conditions improve. I’m also planning to add 25’ and run it as an inverted vee to see if I can use it on 80M.

I would encourage you to go down the 9:1 rabbit hole with gusto. You should also go down the EFHW rabbit hole too. Do yourself a favor and order a bunch of toroids such as the T130-2 for the 9:1 (http://www.earchi.org/92011endfedfiles/Endfed6_40.pdf) and a bunch of FT140-43’s, FT240-43’s for EFHW transformers. You might want to get some FT240-31 toroids too (useful for 1:1 current values). Have fun!

73 de K9NUD


Carl Gansen
 

End fed wires have been my "go to" antenna for years at Field Days and Boy Scout Jamboree on the air, demonstrating ham radio at schools... 

 A simple "L" section tuner and a wire to a convenient high point gets you on the air. A coil of coax (10-20 turns about 4-5 inch diameter" between the "L" section and the rig tames stray RF reasonably well, but in later years I preferred the line isolator from Radioworks.

72
Carl WB0CFF 


Dr Jim Kennedy
 
Edited

I live in an antenna restricted condo community. I have built a 22awg insulated 35’ end fed long wire antenna into a 9:1 unun and a tuner. I have with 5 watts worked 7 countries and all across the USA (using 80-10 meters) with my Ft-817nd. So yes they do work.
--
*72/73, Doc - K2PHD
OOTC#4697 - SKCC#5669 - NAQCC#9194 - FISTS#18988 - 4SQRP# 1522
OEM/RACES/ARES/CERT/SKYWARN
K2PHD@...
FN20qv*


Thomas Martin
 

Has anyone used the metal guttering on their home if give it a try sometime.
I’ve used one for sometime now using a 9:1 balun had very good luck.
Just thrown out for thought.

Tom
K0amd


On Monday, October 11, 2021, Dr Jim Kennedy via groups.io <phdad_ccm=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

I live in an antenna restricted condo community. I have built a 22awg insulated 35’ end fed long wire antenna into a 9:1 unun and a tuner. I have with 5 watts worked 7 countries and all across the USA (using 80-10 meters) with my Ft-817nd. So yes they do work.
--
*72/73, Doc - K2PHD
OOTC#4697 - SKCC#5669 - NAQCC#9194 - FISTS#18988 - 4SQRP# 1522
OEM/RACES/ARES/CERT/SKYWARN
K2PHD@...
FN20qv*


Dale Putnam
 

There's a fellow back east that has one, and has WAS with it. 

Have a great day,

Dale - WC7S in Wy

"Actions speak louder than words"


From: main@4SQRP.groups.io <main@4SQRP.groups.io> on behalf of Thomas Martin <tem494@...>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 8:06 PM
To: main@4sqrp.groups.io <main@4sqrp.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [4SQRP] long wire
 
Has anyone used the metal guttering on their home if give it a try sometime.
I’ve used one for sometime now using a 9:1 balun had very good luck.
Just thrown out for thought.

Tom
K0amd

On Monday, October 11, 2021, Dr Jim Kennedy via groups.io <phdad_ccm=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

I live in an antenna restricted condo community. I have built a 22awg insulated 35’ end fed long wire antenna into a 9:1 unun and a tuner. I have with 5 watts worked 7 countries and all across the USA (using 80-10 meters) with my Ft-817nd. So yes they do work.
--
*72/73, Doc - K2PHD
OOTC#4697 - SKCC#5669 - NAQCC#9194 - FISTS#18988 - 4SQRP# 1522
OEM/RACES/ARES/CERT/SKYWARN
K2PHD@...
FN20qv*


Sam Billingsley
 

I have been using a 85 foot end-fed wire with manual MFJ tuner for 20 years. Keep the horizontal section as high and as long as possible. After tuning I log the dial settings with 1:1 SWR for each band so future band changes are fast and simple. Usually the resetting to the logged settings will get you to a very low SWR without even rechecking . If a particular band is a little high SWR I add a few inches using an inline tapped coil to get to 1:1 SWR.


W6BOW
 

Sam,

Thanks for the post. Most helpful.

Don
W6BOW


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Billingsley <billingsleysam@...>
To: main@4SQRP.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2021 2:27 pm
Subject: Re: [4SQRP] long wire

I have been using a 85 foot end-fed wire with manual MFJ tuner for 20 years. Keep the horizontal section as high and as long as possible. After tuning I log the dial settings with 1:1 SWR for each band so future band changes are fast and simple. Usually the resetting to the logged settings will get you to a very low SWR without even rechecking . If a particular band is a little high SWR I add a few inches using an inline tapped coil to get to 1:1 SWR.


ehlywa@...
 

Please tell us about your long wire antenna grounds. 
End- feds with counterpoises and dipoles don't need'm. but....?
... a ground from a second story shack vs a basement shack next to the copper rod pounded into the ground..... all adds to the antenny.

Ed W4ywa


Sam Billingsley
 

I am in a 2nd floor shack and have about a 30 ft wire from the back of the tuner (as a counterpoise), out the window and sloped down to the ground on wall of garage. It is not grounded at the far end. I have used other lengths at other locations. Have not noticed a big difference in the performance.


Curt
 

Indeed. Many of these folk with interesting end fed wire solutions have a power supply feeding a rig. Attached to AC mains. Well they have an extensive conductor already on the ground terminal. Ground is where carrots and potatoes grow, not usually a clear electrical concept. Glad many folk are radiating who can't erect one or more center fed dipoles. Radiate on. 

Curt