Regenerative receiver thoughts


Jay Bromley <jayw5jay@...>
 

Hi Phil,

I was thinking the same thing, hi.  I bet Unc Phil could put a new spin on regen receivers.  BTW, the guys here in Fort Smith love the Scrubber.

 

73 de jay/w5jay..

 

From: 4sqrp@... [mailto:4sqrp@...] On Behalf Of Phil Anderson
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 3:09 PM
To: 4sqrp@...; Bill Cromwell
Subject: Re: [4sqrp] Regenerative receiver thoughts

 



GOSH............NOBODY MENTIONED MY AUDIO REGEN
CW FILTER CALLED THE SCRUBBER......OH WELL

72, UNC PHIL

http://www.midnightscience.com/kits.html

Bill Cromwell wrote:


Hi,

Wow! Lots of interest in regens expressed here. All those posts and no
mention of the Yahoo group dedicated to regens. Siggests that all those
ineterested people do not know about it - yet. There is often a lot of
activity there and people busy with regen construction using both vacuum
tubes and solid state construction.

So here it is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/regenrx/

It's s closed group which holds down the SPAM! Go there and sign up. See
you there. I have and operate a National SW-3, RCA RAK-7 and two other
regen projects under construction here. Regens don't have to be "little
to y radios".

73,

Bill  KU8H



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bobby rolph
 

I would like to build a multiband regen also.
kb4qnr
Bobby


 

For those looking for a complete PDF of the issue, it is:

http://ia700806.us.archive.org/13/items/73-magazine-1995-10/10_October_1995.pdf

It's about 32 MB but one can print off the desired pages.

72, de Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us


Bill Cromwell
 

On 10/17/2013 04:31 PM, Jerry Haigwood wrote:
Bill,
The problem with the regenrx group is that they really try to discourage
building with anything other than tubes or as the Brits like to say, valves.
I have been a member for quite a while and 99% of the posts there relate to
tube regens. Every now and then someone actually gets upset if another user
says something about building a solid state regen.
Jerry W5JH
"building something without experimenting is just solder practice"

Hi Jerry,

I think this is a misperception on your part. The misperception may stem form some factual details. Regens are what might be called "retro". Vacuum tubes are what might be called "retro". Hams who are interested in those things are interested in things that are "retro". That interest shows clearly. I hope that is not considered "discouraging". I have not seen anybody discourage another from using solid state designs in regens or associated circuits.

The only cautionary statements have been along the line of not unplugging vacuum tunes and trying to install transistors - especially bipolar transistors - directly into the vacuum tube circuits. FETs work best when abused in that manner and even those need some adjustments. That shouldn't be a surprise if you consider that just changing to a different tube type will probably need some tweaks, and sometimes even for a different tube of the same type. That shouldn't be discouraging at all. After all -

"building something without experimenting is just solder practice"

<grin>


If you look at the files and photos sections of regenrx (and the overflow in regenrx2) you see a lot of solid state regen projects. Another message in this thread references the Wein Bridge Receiver, aka WBR, and that has been discussed and documented in the files and photos section. By the way, WBR is solid state. So have regen receivers inspired by Kitchen and his solid state designs. More than a few others. A statement that solid state designs are discouraged there seems unfounded. Even if more than half ARE vacuum tube designs. There is just no way around the efficiency advantage transistors have over vacuum tubes. The mere presence of vacuum tube designs should not be discouraging.

Finally, there are some hams who are more comfortable with vacuum tubes and do NOT know what to do with transistors - or are inclined in that direction. Some of them have said so without any bashing or discouraging words about solid state radios. I've been on that list a long time and the members there are enthusiastically supportive of anybody who wants to build, use, experiment with regen receivers. With almost 1500 members there have been remarkably few squabbles and none of those were related to tubes vs transistors. They were petty squawks about personal style and were quickly ended. That happens anywhere there are three or more members. We can count all of those on the fingers of one hand and have some unused fingers - even with almost 1500 members over a number years...is it 10 years now? That is not discouraging in my book.

73,

Bill KU8H


Shawn Reed <neivahul@...>
 

On 10/18/2013 6:38 AM, Bill Cromwell wrote:
 

On 10/17/2013 04:31 PM, Jerry Haigwood wrote:
> Bill,
> The problem with the regenrx group is that they really try to discourage
> building with anything other than tubes or as the Brits like to say, valves.
> I have been a member for quite a while and 99% of the posts there relate to
> tube regens. Every now and then someone actually gets upset if another user
> says something about building a solid state regen.
> Jerry W5JH
> "building something without experimenting is just solder practice"
>
>

Hi Jerry,

I think this is a misperception on your part. The misperception may stem
form some factual details. Regens are what might be called "retro".
Vacuum tubes are what might be called "retro". Hams who are interested
in those things are interested in things that are "retro". That interest
shows clearly. I hope that is not considered "discouraging". I have not
seen anybody discourage another from using solid state designs in regens
or associated circuits.

The only cautionary statements have been along the line of not
unplugging vacuum tunes and trying to install transistors - especially
bipolar transistors - directly into the vacuum tube circuits. FETs work
best when abused in that manner and even those need some adjustments.
That shouldn't be a surprise if you consider that just changing to a
different tube type will probably need some tweaks, and sometimes even
for a different tube of the same type. That shouldn't be discouraging at
all. After all -

"building something without experimenting is just solder practice"



If you look at the files and photos sections of regenrx (and the
overflow in regenrx2) you see a lot of solid state regen projects.
Another message in this thread references the Wein Bridge Receiver, aka
WBR, and that has been discussed and documented in the files and photos
section. By the way, WBR is solid state. So have regen receivers
inspired by Kitchen and his solid state designs. More than a few others.
A statement that solid state designs are discouraged there seems
unfounded. Even if more than half ARE vacuum tube designs. There is just
no way around the efficiency advantage transistors have over vacuum
tubes. The mere presence of vacuum tube designs should not be discouraging.

Finally, there are some hams who are more comfortable with vacuum tubes
and do NOT know what to do with transistors - or are inclined in that
direction. Some of them have said so without any bashing or discouraging
words about solid state radios. I've been on that list a long time and
the members there are enthusiastically supportive of anybody who wants
to build, use, experiment with regen receivers. With almost 1500 members
there have been remarkably few squabbles and none of those were related
to tubes vs transistors. They were petty squawks about personal style
and were quickly ended. That happens anywhere there are three or more
members. We can count all of those on the fingers of one hand and have
some unused fingers - even with almost 1500 members over a number
years...is it 10 years now? That is not discouraging in my book.

73,

Bill KU8H

Bill,
     Thank you for your bringing together any gap in understanding one of each other. My experience with tubes began when I was a kid. (born in yr. 55). Maybe I was hiding behind the TV, (black and white), but I would be attracted to the glowing tubes of different sizes. I also, learned to wiggle the ones not on - and the tv would work, once again! There were tube testers in practically every store. That was always fun to take a bag of various, shine underneath the dust, dead tubes-to the store, with my parent, hoping to bring the television back home, back to life again. Here is my mis-notion; That tubes were finally replaced with "something else", and the old tv just had to go, for it had become too difficult to find any of what you needed to gain a last gasp of breath out of a dying glow on things. I still like the glow of a tube, the only reason I have not ventured that way, as a rf collector, is I didn't want to pursue, (as far as time management),  learning about tubes, thinking that they are in low supply, and difficult to find. That's how little I know, and I am hoping now to find out from you, --if the tubes one needs for today's hobby are live and well? Thanks, Shawn. kf7yff


cbayona <CBayona@...>
 

I've been a member for many years and I agree with your assessment, although there is bias towards tubes/valves the group does not discourage solid state projects.

At 08:38 AM 10/18/2013, you wrote:
On 10/17/2013 04:31 PM, Jerry Haigwood wrote:
Bill,
The problem with the regenrx group is that they really try
to discourage
building with anything other than tubes or as the Brits like to
say, valves.
I have been a member for quite a while and 99% of the posts there relate to
tube regens. Every now and then someone actually gets upset if
another user
says something about building a solid state regen.
Jerry W5JH
"building something without experimenting is just solder practice"

Hi Jerry,

I think this is a misperception on your part. The misperception may stem
form some factual details. Regens are what might be called "retro".
Vacuum tubes are what might be called "retro". Hams who are interested
in those things are interested in things that are "retro". That interest
shows clearly. I hope that is not considered "discouraging". I have not
seen anybody discourage another from using solid state designs in regens
or associated circuits.

The only cautionary statements have been along the line of not
unplugging vacuum tunes and trying to install transistors - especially
bipolar transistors - directly into the vacuum tube circuits. FETs work
best when abused in that manner and even those need some adjustments.
That shouldn't be a surprise if you consider that just changing to a
different tube type will probably need some tweaks, and sometimes even
for a different tube of the same type. That shouldn't be discouraging at
all. After all -

"building something without experimenting is just solder practice"

<grin>


If you look at the files and photos sections of regenrx (and the
overflow in regenrx2) you see a lot of solid state regen projects.
Another message in this thread references the Wein Bridge Receiver, aka
WBR, and that has been discussed and documented in the files and photos
section. By the way, WBR is solid state. So have regen receivers
inspired by Kitchen and his solid state designs. More than a few others.
A statement that solid state designs are discouraged there seems
unfounded. Even if more than half ARE vacuum tube designs. There is just
no way around the efficiency advantage transistors have over vacuum
tubes. The mere presence of vacuum tube designs should not be discouraging.

Finally, there are some hams who are more comfortable with vacuum tubes
and do NOT know what to do with transistors - or are inclined in that
direction. Some of them have said so without any bashing or discouraging
words about solid state radios. I've been on that list a long time and
the members there are enthusiastically supportive of anybody who wants
to build, use, experiment with regen receivers. With almost 1500 members
there have been remarkably few squabbles and none of those were related
to tubes vs transistors. They were petty squawks about personal style
and were quickly ended. That happens anywhere there are three or more
members. We can count all of those on the fingers of one hand and have
some unused fingers - even with almost 1500 members over a number
years...is it 10 years now? That is not discouraging in my book.

73,

Bill KU8H
--
Cecil - k5nwa
< http://thepartsplace.k5nwa.com/ > < http://www.softrockradio.org/ >

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.


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Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Shawn,

I'm posting my reply to the list as there are probably others interested. Tubes, especially receiving tubes, are plentiful and quite often cheap. However, I have paid an average of seventy five cents each for tubes at hamfests and on eBay after considering postage and after the defective ones were removed. Some batches cost me a little more. Some a little less. Now..I can buy bipolar transistors by the dozens for that dollar! FETS not much more. Integrated circuits are a bit more. RF power costs a little more and serious RF power costs even more whether in vacuum tubes or transistors.

A big consideration playing with vacuum tubes is the higher voltage involved. Touching the wrong thing at the wrong time "under the hood" will at least get your attention! The voltages there could kill you. The more lethal risks are associated with transmitters (much higher voltages involved). Being bitten by a "modest" receiver power supply can cause damage if not death. You won't like it one bit. Some of us learned the safety rules first thing and live by them. Things like insulated floor mats and keeping one hand in a pocket while working on live circuits. Procedures like connecting the meter with power off and then then standing clear while applying power for the reading. Things hams would never waste time on working with a handful of transistors and a puny nine volt battery. Probably that has saved the "tube guys" a lot of transistor smoke as the same safety processes are much safer for the parts, too. Something anybody should consider before playing with tubes. Learn the safety rules, use them, and you will find quite a bit of enjoyment. Having pointed at this I can add that tubes in receiving applications can be operated with much lower voltages and some of the "battery tube" heaters use less power than a flashlight bulb.

Tubes have a built-in operational overhead that transistors do not have. The tube heaters, the pretty glowing part, can use as much power as some entire QRP rigs! Those do nothing but make heat and a pretty little light. The heat is *required* but to get any useful work from the tube you must apply even more power. Tube efficiency is never going to win against transistors doing the same job. Not ever. Tubes may have some advantages in some functions and they are much more robust if subjected to overloads for longer periods than transistors. Nobody ever lost a vacuum tube RF amp in the front end of his receiver due to static!

I encourage anybody and everybody to build there own gear. One of the fundamental things about homebrewing that doesn't get much press is "use what you have". You can get a basket full of transistors pretty dern cheap. You may already have a big pile of them. That also applies to skills. If you already know how to use transistors (or tubes) and you already have some of them then that is what you should use. Build it, tweak it, get it on the air. Then brag or even gloat <evil grin>.

A final comment about the regenrx list. Yes, there are more tube enthusiasts there than solid state enthusiasts. If more solid state enthusiasts joined up that balance would change <hint, hint>. Those people would be welcome.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 10/18/2013 12:29 PM, Shawn Reed wrote:
Bill,
Thank you for your bringing together any gap in understanding one of each other. My experience with tubes began when I was a kid. (born in yr. 55). Maybe I was hiding behind the TV, (black and white), but I would be attracted to the glowing tubes of different sizes. I also, learned to wiggle the ones not on - and the tv would work, once again! There were tube testers in practically every store. That was always fun to take a bag of various, shine underneath the dust, dead tubes-to the store, with my parent, hoping to bring the television back home, back to life again. Here is my mis-notion; That tubes were finally replaced with "something else", and the old tv just had to go, for it had become too difficult to find any of what you needed to gain a last gasp of breath out of a dying glow on things. I still like the glow of a tube, the only reason I have not ventured that way, as a rf collector, is I didn't want to pursue, (as far as time management), learning about tubes, thinking that they are in low supply, and difficult to find. That's how little I know, and I am hoping now to find out from you, --if the tubes one needs for today's hobby are live and well? Thanks, Shawn. kf7yff


dekle@...
 

Here's something interesting.


http://hamshop.cz/kits-c4/stavebnice-regenerativniho-prijimace-pro-pasmo-40m-i150/


Bill

KV6Z



---In 4sqrp@..., <psmith61@..., 4sqrp@...> wrote:

Is there anyone out there beside me that would like to build a regen receiver ? I know there are a couple kits available. I built the ten tec kit with some success. I am NO good at manhattan work but would like to do a regen kit with a couple bands. Is there any interest or is it me and a couple other guys.
What say you?

de Paul N0NBD

Sent from my iPad


Joe Bento
 

Looks like a standard grid-leak regen, 'cept with an FET rather than a triode.   It is using a "throttle cap" rather than a pot for the regeneration.  I suspect this set should give good performance.

Joe, N6DGY


On 10/25/2013 9:32 AM, dekle@... wrote:

Here's something interesting.


http://hamshop.cz/kits-c4/stavebnice-regenerativniho-prijimace-pro-pasmo-40m-i150/


Bill

KV6Z