rekitted new hw-8


ac9xh@juno.com <ac9xh@...>
 

Anyone ever thought about taking the hw-8 schematic and redoing it with modern parts and coils, and maybe smd?

newer ics, transistors and coils. ? If anyone could do that, the hw-8 would be a hot little seller, in my own opinion.


Shirley Dulcey KE1L
 

I'm not convinced that it would sell.

First, there is the problem that air variable capacitors and reduction drives are expensive nowadays. You can use surplus components in a one of a kind homebrew rig, but to kit something to build in quantity you'll probably have to use new parts.

There is also the fact that a direct conversion transceiver (without phasing for single signal reception) and an analog VFO is rather out of fashion. You can get more performance now in other ways.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 11:24 PM ac9xh@... via groups.io <ac9xh=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Anyone ever thought about taking the hw-8 schematic and redoing it with modern parts and coils, and maybe smd?

newer ics, transistors and coils. ? If anyone could do that, the hw-8 would be a hot little seller, in my own opinion.


Walter - K5EST
 

I sure agree with Shirley,  the little HW-8 is just not up to today's operating style. Ever notice that a huge number of CW QSOs are at xxxx.00 on your dial? Just try transmitting on 7.045.03 MHz or similar off a little frequency and someone is bound to let you know "ur off freq"!!!! You will really get challenged on SSB. Analog readouts are pretty much only useful for hunt and pounce, not calling CQ or initiating a QSO.

If you really want a DC receiver with a noise floor so low you can barely tell the radio is turned on......until you tune on a signal, then build yourself a W7EL transceiver. Oak Hills Research (via Doug DeMaw) produced the Oak Hills Sprint, a 1 1/2 watt transceiver that even today has not been duplicated.

A pix of the 30 meter Sprint is attached. 

73,

Walter Dufrain - K5EST - QRPcw

_._,_._,_


Curt
 

One of a kind maybe from surplus parts, but not mass produced. Oh I used my hw8 recently for several qsos. 

Well it was direct conversion as then a superhet might have at least doubled its cost. The pc revolution brought the useful crystals at low cost. 

Now to go a bit counter culture, a design using old fashioned LC VFO shares much with an hw8. But not sure what might be kitted now without a PLL. Rigs like the Hilltopper are a traditional qrp superhet combined with a PLL. 

Now the hw8 does feature multiple bands, after the k1, kx1, pf3 not much in kit form has come along since. Of these only the k1 managed to do it with a LC vfo. Available component technology at a given time does matter. 

Blessed Easter to all those Christian. 

Curt wb8yyy 


Bob Scott
 

I do not understand something.  If I am the station calling CQ, how can I be off frequency?  Has something changed?

Bob W4ZY

On Apr 17, 2022, at 10:50, Walter - K5EST <walter.k5est@...> wrote:

I sure agree with Shirley,  the little HW-8 is just not up to today's operating style. Ever notice that a huge number of CW QSOs are at xxxx.00 on your dial? Just try transmitting on 7.045.03 MHz or similar off a little frequency and someone is bound to let you know "ur off freq"!!!! You will really get challenged on SSB. Analog readouts are pretty much only useful for hunt and pounce, not calling CQ or initiating a QSO.



J.K. Wright
 

You can't be off freq. if calling CQ or responding to someone else's CQ as long as you zero beat them. Only time would be if you are approaching a specific frequency like a net. But then again, tune to the net before transmitting. I had a HW-7. Only problems were a susceptibility to hum if you had a low grade power source. I usually ran on a battery.
Jerry, NK2C

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 7:17 PM Bob Scott <scobsa@...> wrote:
I do not understand something.  If I am the station calling CQ, how can I be off frequency?  Has something changed?

Bob W4ZY

On Apr 17, 2022, at 10:50, Walter - K5EST <walter.k5est@...> wrote:

I sure agree with Shirley,  the little HW-8 is just not up to today's operating style. Ever notice that a huge number of CW QSOs are at xxxx.00 on your dial? Just try transmitting on 7.045.03 MHz or similar off a little frequency and someone is bound to let you know "ur off freq"!!!! You will really get challenged on SSB. Analog readouts are pretty much only useful for hunt and pounce, not calling CQ or initiating a QSO.



Walter - K5EST
 

You missed the point, if you'll notice most QSOs are at xxxx.00. Some folks (I'm being nice) think if you are off from the .00 then you are off frequency. You will see the comment more on SSB than CW.

When it happened to me, I said Bye Bye and kept on the frequency!

73,

Walter Dufrain - K5EST - QRPcw
https://www.qrz.com/db/k5est

   


On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 18:17 Bob Scott <scobsa@...> wrote:
I do not understand something.  If I am the station calling CQ, how can I be off frequency?  Has something changed?

Bob W4ZY

On Apr 17, 2022, at 10:50, Walter - K5EST <walter.k5est@...> wrote:

I sure agree with Shirley,  the little HW-8 is just not up to today's operating style. Ever notice that a huge number of CW QSOs are at xxxx.00 on your dial? Just try transmitting on 7.045.03 MHz or similar off a little frequency and someone is bound to let you know "ur off freq"!!!! You will really get challenged on SSB. Analog readouts are pretty much only useful for hunt and pounce, not calling CQ or initiating a QSO.



J.K. Wright
 

Walter - we call those folks newbies, no matter their license class. 😀
NK2C

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 8:52 PM Walter - K5EST <walter.k5est@...> wrote:
You missed the point, if you'll notice most QSOs are at xxxx.00. Some folks (I'm being nice) think if you are off from the .00 then you are off frequency. You will see the comment more on SSB than CW.

When it happened to me, I said Bye Bye and kept on the frequency!

73,

Walter Dufrain - K5EST - QRPcw
https://www.qrz.com/db/k5est

   

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 18:17 Bob Scott <scobsa@...> wrote:
I do not understand something.  If I am the station calling CQ, how can I be off frequency?  Has something changed?

Bob W4ZY

On Apr 17, 2022, at 10:50, Walter - K5EST <walter.k5est@...> wrote:

I sure agree with Shirley,  the little HW-8 is just not up to today's operating style. Ever notice that a huge number of CW QSOs are at xxxx.00 on your dial? Just try transmitting on 7.045.03 MHz or similar off a little frequency and someone is bound to let you know "ur off freq"!!!! You will really get challenged on SSB. Analog readouts are pretty much only useful for hunt and pounce, not calling CQ or initiating a QSO.



n4mj
 

Bob,
I believe what Walter was saying is that if a station is transmitting on 7.04503 (via digital readout) one would likely have a difficult time matching that specific frequency with an analog VFO (HW-8). The two stations, one using digital with a readout of 7.04503, the other using an analog VFO, probably would not be exactly on the same frequency; not that that is an issue to complete a QSO. 

Some folks are more particular than others about being 'on frequency'.  What they might not take into account is the difference in frequency accuracy of two or more stations, digital and/or analog.  That is to say - just because two stations digital readout may show the same readout doesn't necessarily mean they are on the same 'exact' frequency.

Bottom line - semantics of the words used to describe a situation.

73 de n4mj//glenn





 
PLEASE REMOVE all email addresses before you send it on and use BCC option when forwarding"
  Thank you! 



On Sunday, April 17, 2022, 06:17:30 PM CDT, Bob Scott <scobsa@...> wrote:


I do not understand something.  If I am the station calling CQ, how can I be off frequency?  Has something changed?

Bob W4ZY

On Apr 17, 2022, at 10:50, Walter - K5EST <walter.k5est@...> wrote:

I sure agree with Shirley,  the little HW-8 is just not up to today's operating style. Ever notice that a huge number of CW QSOs are at xxxx.00 on your dial? Just try transmitting on 7.045.03 MHz or similar off a little frequency and someone is bound to let you know "ur off freq"!!!! You will really get challenged on SSB. Analog readouts are pretty much only useful for hunt and pounce, not calling CQ or initiating a QSO.



John Kirby
 


 OFF FREQ ? de a CW OP since 1956

Today, for me, the only issue switching from a modern !digital! XCVR to  a  DC :>)) radio with an analog VFO is remembering which sideband to LISTEN on

So if I answer a CQ from a modern digital xcvr (on 40m for example) he is transmitting LSB with me listening on opposite sideband then ... YES I am off his frequency

Proud owner of HOT WATER 8 plus several other analog DC radios

72 73
John
N3AAZ


ac9xh@juno.com <ac9xh@...>
 
Edited

 
I agree with most statements. here. I experienced the same issues on SSB my self. Even though ive been an extra class licensee for quite awhile and used DC transceivers,digital transceivers, Ive come to a conclusion. Im like Walter. If you are SENDING CQ, the receiving ham can tune to your signal, zero beat use the sidetone to match the other stations pitch using the spot button,toggle,. If a ham bickers at me that im off frequency and doesnt want to continue the QSO, even if i were the one sending the CQ,i also say bye bye if the other operator wants to bicker about it,since i was the one initiating the qso
 
. Ive been in pileups, DXing,etc and sometimes with band noise,etc its easier to hear the QSO being a little off frequency.Thats just my own take of it.Even if its digital,readout, use ur ears for normal sounding human yaking. doing cw on a direct conversion rig is different since you can hear all of the spectrum. i worked out which way to tune the dial when searching for qsos.
 
but once you get the hang of it, its easy. discrepancies of each radio may put one off compared to another rig. even though i have digital on one of my rigs, i always use my ears. when i receive my eqsl cards online, they always have a difference unless you are using a 1000 rig.i use a frequency counter with my setup and always send that frequency on my qso reports. so far i havent had any rejects. I do agree that some purists will not allow others to go off frequency when they are in a QSO. Thats their choice. They usually are the ones who reject  a good qso just because ur frequency is a little off. Ive been in nets where the only way to hear a weak signal thru the mud is to be a little off frequency. some of my best DX was completed that way..Sometimes the tone makes a big difference in making that DX contact or not.especially if you have a pileup or lots of noise.The higher off frequency tone was easier to hear at the time.
 
Ive owned hw-8,hw-7,hallicrafters,icom,kenwood,etc. and to me personally, i just use what i was taught in the beginning. i listen to the signal, make sure im within band,and within the limits per mode im operating so i dont go out of band, i use a frequency counter for each rig i own. I dont trust the dials. old fashioned. i guess.
with hw-8 i made sure i was in my section of band allowed and then tuned their signal to match my sidetone. thats all i did and worked many many dx and state side stations that way.Ive used a frequency counter ever since ive been a ham and ever since they became popular. when i was beginning, digital readouts were becoming hot,having articles in 73, cq,hamradio horizons,etc.
 
The freq counters get taken to a commercial radio shop once every so often to check accuracy so that i know a third party FCC licensed tech getting paid has verified the accuracy of my counters. any fall out of tolerance, i trash them unlless i can correct it by recapping it or new crystals,etc,if not, buy another .this doesnt happen too often. maybe once  every 9 years. And ive been licensed since late 70s.
 
Like the old FCC engineer who i talked to after passing my tests in Chicago at the Federal building,thats when you had to sit in front of a FCC examiner, He told me," if you are not crystal controlled, you better make sure where ur at ,at all times and even if using a crystal you need to verify where u are" . Thats when FCC actually sent out nice letters to people for being out of band or out of subband,etc and enforced it too.Thats why i dont trust the digital readouts or analog readouts. My way of thinking is they both get u close,but for true accuracy,for my self, a separate frequency counter to verify where i am at all times.and with the purist, if you dont have what matches in their logbook even though you both chatted for an hour or so, they will reject it if they dont find you in the logbook on that time at that exact frequency. Its happened to me even though i use separate freq counters. GO FIGURE RIGHT?
 
just like a lawyer. document document document. as long as you know ur legal and not interfering with others, go enjoy our great HOBBY.
 
Just my stupid take of it all,but it works for me.
 

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 08:38:39 AM EDT, John Kirby <n3aaz_qrp_1@...> wrote:
 
 

 OFF FREQ ? de a CW OP since 1956

Today, for me, the only issue switching from a modern !digital! XCVR to  a  DC :>)) radio with an analog VFO is remembering which sideband to LISTEN on

So if I answer a CQ from a modern digital xcvr (on 40m for example) he is transmitting LSB with me listening on opposite sideband then ... YES I am off his frequency

Proud owner of HOT WATER 8 plus several other analog DC radios

72 73
John
N3AAZ


ac9xh@juno.com <ac9xh@...>
 

oh and the qso reject never happened with the eqsl system.

I was trying for WAS QRP and was rejected for being off by 1kc even though i was using an accurate frequency counter. the other op was using a newer 1000 dollar rig and it was off because of the setting he had set on the front panel.
ARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHH.

73
David
ac9xh

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 03:13:30 PM EDT, david todd <ac9xh@...> wrote:


I agree with most statements. here. I experienced the same issues on SSB my self. Even though ive been an extra class licensee for quite awhile and used DC transceivers,digital transceivers, Ive come to a conclusion. Im like Walter. If you are SENDING CQ, the receiving ham can tune to your signal, zero beat use the sidetone to match the other stations pitch using the spot button,toggle,. If a ham bickers at me that im off frequency and doesnt want to continue the QSO, even if i were the one sending the CQ,i also say bye bye if the other operator wants to bicker about it,since i was the one initiating the qso

. Ive been in pileups, DXing,etc and sometimes with band noise,etc its easier to hear the QSO being a little off frequency.Thats just my own take of it.Even if its digital,readout, use ur ears for normal sounding human yaking. doing cw on a direct conversion rig is different since you can hear all of the spectrum. i worked out which way to tune the dial when searching for qsos.

but once you get the hang of it, its easy. discrepancies of each radio may put one off compared to another rig. even though i have digital on one of my rigs, i always use my ears. when i receive my eqsl cards online, they always have a difference unless you are using a 1000 rig.i use a frequency counter with my setup and always send that frequency on my qso reports. so far i havent had any rejects. I do agree that some purists will not allow others to go off frequency when they are in a QSO. Thats their choice. They usually are the ones who reject  a good qso just because ur frequency is a little off. Ive been in nets where the only way to hear a weak signal thru the mud is to be a little off frequency. some of my best DX was completed that way..Sometimes the tone makes a big difference in making that DX contact or not.especially if you have a pileup or lots of noise.The higher off frequency tone was easier to hear at the time.

Ive owned hw-8,hw-7,hallicrafters,icom,kenwood,etc. and to me personally, i just use what i was taught in the beginning. i listen to the signal, make sure im within band,and within the limits per mode im operating so i dont go out of band, i use a frequency counter for each rig i own. I dont trust the dials. old fashioned. i guess.
with hw-8 i made sure i was in my section of band allowed and then tuned the signal to match my sidetone. thats all i did and worked many many dx and state side stations that way.Ive used a frequency counter ever since ive been a ham and ever since they became popular. when i was beginning, digital readouts were becoming hot,having articles in 73, cq,hamradio horizons,etc.

The freq counters get taken to a commercial radio shop once every so often to check accuracy so that i know a third party FCC licensed tech getting paid has verified the accuracy of my counters. any fall out of tolerance, i trash them unlless i can correct it by recapping it or new crystals,etc,if not, buy another .this doesnt happen too often. maybe once  every 9 years. And ive been licensed since late 70s.

Like the old FCC engineer who i talked to after passing my tests in Chicago at the Federal building,thats when you had to sit in front of a FCC examiner, He told me," if you are not crystal controlled, you better make sure where ur at ,at all times and even if using a crystal you need to verify where u are" . Thats when FCC actually sent out nice letters to people for being out of band or out of subband,etc and enforced it too.Thats why i dont trust the digital readouts or analog readouts. My way of thinking is they both get u close,but for true accuracy,for my self, a separate frequency counter to verify where i am at all times.and with the purist, if you dont have what matches in their logbook even though you both chatted for an hour or so, they will reject it if they dont find you in the logbook on that time at that exact frequency. Its happened to me even though i use separate freq counters. GO FIGURE RIGHT?

just like a lawyer. document document document. as long as you know ur legal and not interfering with others, go enjoy our great HOBBY.

Just my stupid take of it all,but it works for me.

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 08:38:39 AM EDT, John Kirby <n3aaz_qrp_1@...> wrote:



 OFF FREQ ? de a CW OP since 1956

Today, for me, the only issue switching from a modern !digital! XCVR to  a  DC :>)) radio with an analog VFO is remembering which sideband to LISTEN on

So if I answer a CQ from a modern digital xcvr (on 40m for example) he is transmitting LSB with me listening on opposite sideband then ... YES I am off his frequency

Proud owner of HOT WATER 8 plus several other analog DC radios

72 73
John
N3AAZ


ac9xh@juno.com <ac9xh@...>
 

forgot to sign my previous posting, sorry everyone!!!!


73
David
ac9xh

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 03:17:36 PM EDT, ac9xh@... via groups.io <ac9xh@...> wrote:


oh and the qso reject never happened with the eqsl system.

I was trying for WAS QRP and was rejected for being off by 1kc even though i was using an accurate frequency counter. the other op was using a newer 1000 dollar rig and it was off because of the setting he had set on the front panel.
ARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHH.

73
David
ac9xh

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 03:13:30 PM EDT, david todd <ac9xh@...> wrote:


I agree with most statements. here. I experienced the same issues on SSB my self. Even though ive been an extra class licensee for quite awhile and used DC transceivers,digital transceivers, Ive come to a conclusion. Im like Walter. If you are SENDING CQ, the receiving ham can tune to your signal, zero beat use the sidetone to match the other stations pitch using the spot button,toggle,. If a ham bickers at me that im off frequency and doesnt want to continue the QSO, even if i were the one sending the CQ,i also say bye bye if the other operator wants to bicker about it,since i was the one initiating the qso

. Ive been in pileups, DXing,etc and sometimes with band noise,etc its easier to hear the QSO being a little off frequency.Thats just my own take of it.Even if its digital,readout, use ur ears for normal sounding human yaking. doing cw on a direct conversion rig is different since you can hear all of the spectrum. i worked out which way to tune the dial when searching for qsos.

but once you get the hang of it, its easy. discrepancies of each radio may put one off compared to another rig. even though i have digital on one of my rigs, i always use my ears. when i receive my eqsl cards online, they always have a difference unless you are using a 1000 rig.i use a frequency counter with my setup and always send that frequency on my qso reports. so far i havent had any rejects. I do agree that some purists will not allow others to go off frequency when they are in a QSO. Thats their choice. They usually are the ones who reject  a good qso just because ur frequency is a little off. Ive been in nets where the only way to hear a weak signal thru the mud is to be a little off frequency. some of my best DX was completed that way..Sometimes the tone makes a big difference in making that DX contact or not.especially if you have a pileup or lots of noise.The higher off frequency tone was easier to hear at the time.

Ive owned hw-8,hw-7,hallicrafters,icom,kenwood,etc. and to me personally, i just use what i was taught in the beginning. i listen to the signal, make sure im within band,and within the limits per mode im operating so i dont go out of band, i use a frequency counter for each rig i own. I dont trust the dials. old fashioned. i guess.
with hw-8 i made sure i was in my section of band allowed and then tuned the signal to match my sidetone. thats all i did and worked many many dx and state side stations that way.Ive used a frequency counter ever since ive been a ham and ever since they became popular. when i was beginning, digital readouts were becoming hot,having articles in 73, cq,hamradio horizons,etc.

The freq counters get taken to a commercial radio shop once every so often to check accuracy so that i know a third party FCC licensed tech getting paid has verified the accuracy of my counters. any fall out of tolerance, i trash them unlless i can correct it by recapping it or new crystals,etc,if not, buy another .this doesnt happen too often. maybe once  every 9 years. And ive been licensed since late 70s.

Like the old FCC engineer who i talked to after passing my tests in Chicago at the Federal building,thats when you had to sit in front of a FCC examiner, He told me," if you are not crystal controlled, you better make sure where ur at ,at all times and even if using a crystal you need to verify where u are" . Thats when FCC actually sent out nice letters to people for being out of band or out of subband,etc and enforced it too.Thats why i dont trust the digital readouts or analog readouts. My way of thinking is they both get u close,but for true accuracy,for my self, a separate frequency counter to verify where i am at all times.and with the purist, if you dont have what matches in their logbook even though you both chatted for an hour or so, they will reject it if they dont find you in the logbook on that time at that exact frequency. Its happened to me even though i use separate freq counters. GO FIGURE RIGHT?

just like a lawyer. document document document. as long as you know ur legal and not interfering with others, go enjoy our great HOBBY.

Just my stupid take of it all,but it works for me.

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 08:38:39 AM EDT, John Kirby <n3aaz_qrp_1@...> wrote:



 OFF FREQ ? de a CW OP since 1956

Today, for me, the only issue switching from a modern !digital! XCVR to  a  DC :>)) radio with an analog VFO is remembering which sideband to LISTEN on

So if I answer a CQ from a modern digital xcvr (on 40m for example) he is transmitting LSB with me listening on opposite sideband then ... YES I am off his frequency

Proud owner of HOT WATER 8 plus several other analog DC radios

72 73
John
N3AAZ


ac9xh@juno.com <ac9xh@...>
 

hello, i read on one post to please remove all emails.

I signed up with a different email, but how does one remove the email when posting?
Not new to computers but stupid when in regards to things like this.

73
David
ac9xh


David Todd <ac9xh@...>
 

think i figured out how to eliminate my email. DUHHHHH went to prefences and such on my account.
sorry for being stupid on computers!!!:)
73
David
ac9xh


Richard AG5M
 

I've followed this thread a bit, and unless I'm really missing something, really missing the point of it all, since I got my license in 1963, from what I know, there is not such thing as being "off frequency." We can be on ANY frequency anywhere as long as we are in band. If I call CQ on 14.238.7 and can hear the other guy, and he can hear me, and we can converse with each other, then we're both on frequency regardless of what my analog dial says (on my HW-101) and his mega bucks digital display transceiver says. What am I missing here? 73, Richard AG5M


On Monday, April 18, 2022, 12:17:36 PM PDT, ac9xh@... via groups.io <ac9xh@...> wrote:


oh and the qso reject never happened with the eqsl system.

I was trying for WAS QRP and was rejected for being off by 1kc even though i was using an accurate frequency counter. the other op was using a newer 1000 dollar rig and it was off because of the setting he had set on the front panel.
ARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHH.

73
David
ac9xh

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 03:13:30 PM EDT, david todd <ac9xh@...> wrote:


I agree with most statements. here. I experienced the same issues on SSB my self. Even though ive been an extra class licensee for quite awhile and used DC transceivers,digital transceivers, Ive come to a conclusion. Im like Walter. If you are SENDING CQ, the receiving ham can tune to your signal, zero beat use the sidetone to match the other stations pitch using the spot button,toggle,. If a ham bickers at me that im off frequency and doesnt want to continue the QSO, even if i were the one sending the CQ,i also say bye bye if the other operator wants to bicker about it,since i was the one initiating the qso

. Ive been in pileups, DXing,etc and sometimes with band noise,etc its easier to hear the QSO being a little off frequency.Thats just my own take of it.Even if its digital,readout, use ur ears for normal sounding human yaking. doing cw on a direct conversion rig is different since you can hear all of the spectrum. i worked out which way to tune the dial when searching for qsos.

but once you get the hang of it, its easy. discrepancies of each radio may put one off compared to another rig. even though i have digital on one of my rigs, i always use my ears. when i receive my eqsl cards online, they always have a difference unless you are using a 1000 rig.i use a frequency counter with my setup and always send that frequency on my qso reports. so far i havent had any rejects. I do agree that some purists will not allow others to go off frequency when they are in a QSO. Thats their choice. They usually are the ones who reject  a good qso just because ur frequency is a little off. Ive been in nets where the only way to hear a weak signal thru the mud is to be a little off frequency. some of my best DX was completed that way..Sometimes the tone makes a big difference in making that DX contact or not.especially if you have a pileup or lots of noise.The higher off frequency tone was easier to hear at the time.

Ive owned hw-8,hw-7,hallicrafters,icom,kenwood,etc. and to me personally, i just use what i was taught in the beginning. i listen to the signal, make sure im within band,and within the limits per mode im operating so i dont go out of band, i use a frequency counter for each rig i own. I dont trust the dials. old fashioned. i guess.
with hw-8 i made sure i was in my section of band allowed and then tuned the signal to match my sidetone. thats all i did and worked many many dx and state side stations that way.Ive used a frequency counter ever since ive been a ham and ever since they became popular. when i was beginning, digital readouts were becoming hot,having articles in 73, cq,hamradio horizons,etc.

The freq counters get taken to a commercial radio shop once every so often to check accuracy so that i know a third party FCC licensed tech getting paid has verified the accuracy of my counters. any fall out of tolerance, i trash them unlless i can correct it by recapping it or new crystals,etc,if not, buy another .this doesnt happen too often. maybe once  every 9 years. And ive been licensed since late 70s.

Like the old FCC engineer who i talked to after passing my tests in Chicago at the Federal building,thats when you had to sit in front of a FCC examiner, He told me," if you are not crystal controlled, you better make sure where ur at ,at all times and even if using a crystal you need to verify where u are" . Thats when FCC actually sent out nice letters to people for being out of band or out of subband,etc and enforced it too.Thats why i dont trust the digital readouts or analog readouts. My way of thinking is they both get u close,but for true accuracy,for my self, a separate frequency counter to verify where i am at all times.and with the purist, if you dont have what matches in their logbook even though you both chatted for an hour or so, they will reject it if they dont find you in the logbook on that time at that exact frequency. Its happened to me even though i use separate freq counters. GO FIGURE RIGHT?

just like a lawyer. document document document. as long as you know ur legal and not interfering with others, go enjoy our great HOBBY.

Just my stupid take of it all,but it works for me.

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 08:38:39 AM EDT, John Kirby <n3aaz_qrp_1@...> wrote:



 OFF FREQ ? de a CW OP since 1956

Today, for me, the only issue switching from a modern !digital! XCVR to  a  DC :>)) radio with an analog VFO is remembering which sideband to LISTEN on

So if I answer a CQ from a modern digital xcvr (on 40m for example) he is transmitting LSB with me listening on opposite sideband then ... YES I am off his frequency

Proud owner of HOT WATER 8 plus several other analog DC radios

72 73
John
N3AAZ


J.K. Wright
 

Your are correct...used to qso with other novices, all of us with a couple of crystals, on rock bound rigs all the time. 

NK2C

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 11:45 PM Richard AG5M via groups.io <ag5m=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I've followed this thread a bit, and unless I'm really missing something, really missing the point of it all, since I got my license in 1963, from what I know, there is not such thing as being "off frequency." We can be on ANY frequency anywhere as long as we are in band. If I call CQ on 14.238.7 and can hear the other guy, and he can hear me, and we can converse with each other, then we're both on frequency regardless of what my analog dial says (on my HW-101) and his mega bucks digital display transceiver says. What am I missing here? 73, Richard AG5M


On Monday, April 18, 2022, 12:17:36 PM PDT, ac9xh@... via groups.io <ac9xh=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


oh and the qso reject never happened with the eqsl system.

I was trying for WAS QRP and was rejected for being off by 1kc even though i was using an accurate frequency counter. the other op was using a newer 1000 dollar rig and it was off because of the setting he had set on the front panel.
ARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHH.

73
David
ac9xh

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 03:13:30 PM EDT, david todd <ac9xh@...> wrote:


I agree with most statements. here. I experienced the same issues on SSB my self. Even though ive been an extra class licensee for quite awhile and used DC transceivers,digital transceivers, Ive come to a conclusion. Im like Walter. If you are SENDING CQ, the receiving ham can tune to your signal, zero beat use the sidetone to match the other stations pitch using the spot button,toggle,. If a ham bickers at me that im off frequency and doesnt want to continue the QSO, even if i were the one sending the CQ,i also say bye bye if the other operator wants to bicker about it,since i was the one initiating the qso

. Ive been in pileups, DXing,etc and sometimes with band noise,etc its easier to hear the QSO being a little off frequency.Thats just my own take of it.Even if its digital,readout, use ur ears for normal sounding human yaking. doing cw on a direct conversion rig is different since you can hear all of the spectrum. i worked out which way to tune the dial when searching for qsos.

but once you get the hang of it, its easy. discrepancies of each radio may put one off compared to another rig. even though i have digital on one of my rigs, i always use my ears. when i receive my eqsl cards online, they always have a difference unless you are using a 1000 rig.i use a frequency counter with my setup and always send that frequency on my qso reports. so far i havent had any rejects. I do agree that some purists will not allow others to go off frequency when they are in a QSO. Thats their choice. They usually are the ones who reject  a good qso just because ur frequency is a little off. Ive been in nets where the only way to hear a weak signal thru the mud is to be a little off frequency. some of my best DX was completed that way..Sometimes the tone makes a big difference in making that DX contact or not.especially if you have a pileup or lots of noise.The higher off frequency tone was easier to hear at the time.

Ive owned hw-8,hw-7,hallicrafters,icom,kenwood,etc. and to me personally, i just use what i was taught in the beginning. i listen to the signal, make sure im within band,and within the limits per mode im operating so i dont go out of band, i use a frequency counter for each rig i own. I dont trust the dials. old fashioned. i guess.
with hw-8 i made sure i was in my section of band allowed and then tuned the signal to match my sidetone. thats all i did and worked many many dx and state side stations that way.Ive used a frequency counter ever since ive been a ham and ever since they became popular. when i was beginning, digital readouts were becoming hot,having articles in 73, cq,hamradio horizons,etc.

The freq counters get taken to a commercial radio shop once every so often to check accuracy so that i know a third party FCC licensed tech getting paid has verified the accuracy of my counters. any fall out of tolerance, i trash them unlless i can correct it by recapping it or new crystals,etc,if not, buy another .this doesnt happen too often. maybe once  every 9 years. And ive been licensed since late 70s.

Like the old FCC engineer who i talked to after passing my tests in Chicago at the Federal building,thats when you had to sit in front of a FCC examiner, He told me," if you are not crystal controlled, you better make sure where ur at ,at all times and even if using a crystal you need to verify where u are" . Thats when FCC actually sent out nice letters to people for being out of band or out of subband,etc and enforced it too.Thats why i dont trust the digital readouts or analog readouts. My way of thinking is they both get u close,but for true accuracy,for my self, a separate frequency counter to verify where i am at all times.and with the purist, if you dont have what matches in their logbook even though you both chatted for an hour or so, they will reject it if they dont find you in the logbook on that time at that exact frequency. Its happened to me even though i use separate freq counters. GO FIGURE RIGHT?

just like a lawyer. document document document. as long as you know ur legal and not interfering with others, go enjoy our great HOBBY.

Just my stupid take of it all,but it works for me.

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 08:38:39 AM EDT, John Kirby <n3aaz_qrp_1@...> wrote:



 OFF FREQ ? de a CW OP since 1956

Today, for me, the only issue switching from a modern !digital! XCVR to  a  DC :>)) radio with an analog VFO is remembering which sideband to LISTEN on

So if I answer a CQ from a modern digital xcvr (on 40m for example) he is transmitting LSB with me listening on opposite sideband then ... YES I am off his frequency

Proud owner of HOT WATER 8 plus several other analog DC radios

72 73
John
N3AAZ


Dean LaClair
 

I am not sure why it would be hard to zero beat someone with an analog dial? Who looks at the dial ( or readout) when zero beating someone? When I call CQ and someone answers me off freq, I used that magic knob, RIT ! 
Im still trying to comprehend how a guy calling CQ can be off frequency...
I suspect there are many newer ops that have never been instructed how to zero beat a station. 
73 Dean K2WW

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 1:05 AM n4mj via groups.io <n4mj=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bob,
I believe what Walter was saying is that if a station is transmitting on 7.04503 (via digital readout) one would likely have a difficult time matching that specific frequency with an analog VFO (HW-8). The two stations, one using digital with a readout of 7.04503, the other using an analog VFO, probably would not be exactly on the same frequency; not that that is an issue to complete a QSO. 

Some folks are more particular than others about being 'on frequency'.  What they might not take into account is the difference in frequency accuracy of two or more stations, digital and/or analog.  That is to say - just because two stations digital readout may show the same readout doesn't necessarily mean they are on the same 'exact' frequency.

Bottom line - semantics of the words used to describe a situation.

73 de n4mj//glenn





 
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On Sunday, April 17, 2022, 06:17:30 PM CDT, Bob Scott <scobsa@...> wrote:


I do not understand something.  If I am the station calling CQ, how can I be off frequency?  Has something changed?

Bob W4ZY

On Apr 17, 2022, at 10:50, Walter - K5EST <walter.k5est@...> wrote:

I sure agree with Shirley,  the little HW-8 is just not up to today's operating style. Ever notice that a huge number of CW QSOs are at xxxx.00 on your dial? Just try transmitting on 7.045.03 MHz or similar off a little frequency and someone is bound to let you know "ur off freq"!!!! You will really get challenged on SSB. Analog readouts are pretty much only useful for hunt and pounce, not calling CQ or initiating a QSO.



Bill Carpenter
 

While I welcome all the new CW ops most of them don't know CW procedures like we old timers were taught because CW is no longer a requirement like it was when we entered the hobby.  So they don't know how to zero beat nor do they know a lot of the other ins and outs of CW operation.  But I'm glad they want to work CW so I just grit my teeth and work them anyway!
--
73, Bill NZ0T


Dave Benson
 

gang-

I'll put in a contrary word or two here....

I do a lot of POTA activations, and I usually draw modest pileups.  When I'm spotted on POTA's website, nearly everyone tunes to *exactly* the dial frequency listed in the spot.  When I send 'QRZ?', it's a din- all on one frequency!  It's unintelligible.  The folks who get answered first are off-frequency-  perhaps using older rigs.  Failing that, the ones I pull out are the slowest stations, and I get just the tail end of their callsign. Requesting a 'fill' slows things down quite a bit.

I'm not sure there's an answer for this.  Asking folks to 'spred out' may not help.  If you've listened to DX stations call for 'up' and still get clobbered, you'll know what I mean. There is a place for 'off-frequency' replies to a CQ, at least in this situation.   Keep 'em coming in!

It's all part of the charm of Parks on the Air activations, and a good way to sharpen one's operating skills.  I wouldn't trade it for anything.

73- Dave, K1SWL


On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 9:10 AM Dean LaClair <dean.k2ww@...> wrote:
I am not sure why it would be hard to zero beat someone with an analog dial? Who looks at the dial ( or readout) when zero beating someone? When I call CQ and someone answers me off freq, I used that magic knob, RIT ! 
Im still trying to comprehend how a guy calling CQ can be off frequency...
I suspect there are many newer ops that have never been instructed how to zero beat a station. 
73 Dean K2WW

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 1:05 AM n4mj via groups.io <n4mj=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bob,
I believe what Walter was saying is that if a station is transmitting on 7.04503 (via digital readout) one would likely have a difficult time matching that specific frequency with an analog VFO (HW-8). The two stations, one using digital with a readout of 7.04503, the other using an analog VFO, probably would not be exactly on the same frequency; not that that is an issue to complete a QSO. 

Some folks are more particular than others about being 'on frequency'.  What they might not take into account is the difference in frequency accuracy of two or more stations, digital and/or analog.  That is to say - just because two stations digital readout may show the same readout doesn't necessarily mean they are on the same 'exact' frequency.

Bottom line - semantics of the words used to describe a situation.

73 de n4mj//glenn





 
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On Sunday, April 17, 2022, 06:17:30 PM CDT, Bob Scott <scobsa@...> wrote:


I do not understand something.  If I am the station calling CQ, how can I be off frequency?  Has something changed?

Bob W4ZY

On Apr 17, 2022, at 10:50, Walter - K5EST <walter.k5est@...> wrote:

I sure agree with Shirley,  the little HW-8 is just not up to today's operating style. Ever notice that a huge number of CW QSOs are at xxxx.00 on your dial? Just try transmitting on 7.045.03 MHz or similar off a little frequency and someone is bound to let you know "ur off freq"!!!! You will really get challenged on SSB. Analog readouts are pretty much only useful for hunt and pounce, not calling CQ or initiating a QSO.